2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Verstappen said he doesn't know why the mediums didn't work in the race because it worked in practice, but he must have forgotten that they changed the wings.
In the press conference, Verstappen was asked why. Why didn't things really want to flow in that first stint on the yellow-cheeked tyre? "Yes, I don't know. Right now we have to analyse why that was, because in the long runs they were fine in free practice," said the three-time world champion.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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One thing I noticed this year is that RB almost never are instructing their drivers to back off because of cooling concerns and they are basically never have an overheating car. This seems to be a recurring problem for Mercedes and Ferrari. Bill's comment from the previous pages suggested something along these lines, that RB's cooling work is not praised enough. Either Rb are doing something very effective, or they simply don't need to be on the limit for performance, like Merc/Fer.

Bill
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:21 pm
Bill wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:12 pm
organic wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:06 am


Perez took some extra components when he was already starting at the back

I think that there is clearly a deficit on the PU side. Honda worked hard between 2022 and 2023 on reliability - 5 ICEs were required for Max in 2022. It seems they've fallen slightly behind on the power but let's see what they can cook up in the off-season. Ferrari changed their ERS for the second half of the season (monza onwards) iirc which seemed to help them.

BTW if not for Singapore underperformance Max would be on a 17-race win streak (or 16 if you omit singapore altogether) :D
honda never went for all out power unless you have a measuring device please tell us how much power have honda lost or ferrari gained.ferrari is being helped by cool condition on a normal track they will be forced to open their car like in brazil and mexico.ferrari power is nothing new people seem to have short memories they showed that in baku last year too.ferrari has some engine failures in the hass in mexico brazil ,a ferrari powered car retired in vegas too not sure why.its all about balance reliability ,power ,cooling ,deployment, weight size .no manufacture wil beat a honda powered redbull in championship .max will be 5 times champ by 2025
RB will be hoping you are correct. :wink: :lol:
yes i am correct because first pu developments are frozen.it's easy to be quick on the straight if you take away lots of downforce thats why merc and ferrari look to have made magical transformation.the william is typical example of that although they also have a slippery car.low downforce also means car spend less time on full throttle therefore the hondas cant leverage their good deployment.ones we get to abu dhabi reality will set in ,merc will have derating problems and ferrari cooling issues and max will win another race.for some perspective redbull are having their best season ever but not only that the best season of any team in f1 history.they would not have achieved that with other pu because they have limitation either pu would have blown up ruining the record or being poor at high altitude ensuring record are not achieved.

ali623
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:13 am
Verstappen said he doesn't know why the mediums didn't work in the race because it worked in practice, but he must have forgotten that they changed the wings.
In the press conference, Verstappen was asked why. Why didn't things really want to flow in that first stint on the yellow-cheeked tyre? "Yes, I don't know. Right now we have to analyse why that was, because in the long runs they were fine in free practice," said the three-time world champion.
Looked like he pushed too early in the stint, initially was pulling easily away from Leclerc then it levelled out. I assumed he was trying to pull a 5s gap to counter the penalty.

Compare this to Brazil where he managed the tyres early in the initial stint, whereas Norris pushed early and wrecked his. These tyres just seem super sensitive if you don't manage them properly, GP is always going on to Max about it on the radio.

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organic
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ali623 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:26 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:13 am
Verstappen said he doesn't know why the mediums didn't work in the race because it worked in practice, but he must have forgotten that they changed the wings.
In the press conference, Verstappen was asked why. Why didn't things really want to flow in that first stint on the yellow-cheeked tyre? "Yes, I don't know. Right now we have to analyse why that was, because in the long runs they were fine in free practice," said the three-time world champion.
Looked like he pushed too early in the stint, initially was pulling easily away from Leclerc then it levelled out. I assumed he was trying to pull a 5s gap to counter the penalty.

Compare this to Brazil where he managed the tyres early in the initial stint, whereas Norris pushed early and wrecked his. These tyres just seem super sensitive if you don't manage them properly, GP is always going on to Max about it on the radio.
Critical difference at Vegas was that max pushed for that gap twice on the mediums. Max opened 2s gap prior to Norris incident, then SC bunched everything up, then he did it again and pulled 2s.

Charles mentioned post-race that the heat cycle he put through his hard tyres prior to the SC made them harder to heat up for the SC restart and subsequent laps.

It's possible that the heat cycle made the second warmup after the SC bad and max was pushing regardless and that is what made the graining so horrendous

I think in lots of other scenarios, max and GP ease that first set of mediums in both before and after SC but they hyper-focused on breaking away from Leclerc here.. probably because tow beyond DRS was quite powerful itself

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I noticed RB was very softly sprung in las vegas. Mclaren, Fer and Merc were much stiffer and struggled over certain kerbs and in case of Lando completely bottoming out. This certainly helped in extending tyre life on hard compound, where basically no management was required and in general i noticed overall car compliance to be much better than other cars. In last stint Verstappen didn't have to nurse his tyres at all, just some "protecting" the front right, but I didn't notice how he was doing that, if at all. Contract to ferrari and mercedes which required constant tyre management. Hamilton was losing something like 0.5s in T11 with lift & coast. I havent checked leclerc yet, but sainz was in constant troubles with degradation.

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ali623 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:26 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:13 am
Verstappen said he doesn't know why the mediums didn't work in the race because it worked in practice, but he must have forgotten that they changed the wings.
In the press conference, Verstappen was asked why. Why didn't things really want to flow in that first stint on the yellow-cheeked tyre? "Yes, I don't know. Right now we have to analyse why that was, because in the long runs they were fine in free practice," said the three-time world champion.
Looked like he pushed too early in the stint, initially was pulling easily away from Leclerc then it levelled out. I assumed he was trying to pull a 5s gap to counter the penalty.

Compare this to Brazil where he managed the tyres early in the initial stint, whereas Norris pushed early and wrecked his. These tyres just seem super sensitive if you don't manage them properly, GP is always going on to Max about it on the radio.
But then you never get out of DRS here as even if you break DRS there always is the slipstream still. Hard tactical choice. Push or make it somekind of DRS overtake galore. Baku has this problem and then even worse with that one straight of 2 km (or what is it). He did indeed have heavy graining on the fronts and leclerc not, was clear to see even on the live feed.

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:34 am
ali623 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:26 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:13 am
Verstappen said he doesn't know why the mediums didn't work in the race because it worked in practice, but he must have forgotten that they changed the wings.

Looked like he pushed too early in the stint, initially was pulling easily away from Leclerc then it levelled out. I assumed he was trying to pull a 5s gap to counter the penalty.

Compare this to Brazil where he managed the tyres early in the initial stint, whereas Norris pushed early and wrecked his. These tyres just seem super sensitive if you don't manage them properly, GP is always going on to Max about it on the radio.
Critical difference at Vegas was that max pushed for that gap twice on the mediums. Max opened 2s gap prior to Norris incident, then SC bunched everything up, then he did it again and pulled 2s.

Charles mentioned post-race that the heat cycle he put through his hard tyres prior to the SC made them harder to heat up for the SC restart and subsequent laps.

It's possible that the heat cycle made the second warmup after the SC bad and max was pushing regardless and that is what made the graining so horrendous

I think in lots of other scenarios, max and GP ease that first set of mediums in both before and after SC but they hyper-focused on breaking away from Leclerc here.. probably because tow beyond DRS was quite powerful itself
Exactly. =D>

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:13 pm
I noticed RB was very softly sprung in las vegas. Mclaren, Fer and Merc were much stiffer and struggled over certain kerbs and in case of Lando completely bottoming out. This certainly helped in extending tyre life on hard compound, where basically no management was required and in general i noticed overall car compliance to be much better than other cars. In last stint Verstappen didn't have to nurse his tyres at all, just some "protecting" the front right, but I didn't notice how he was doing that, if at all. Contract to ferrari and mercedes which required constant tyre management. Hamilton was losing something like 0.5s in T11 with lift & coast. I havent checked leclerc yet, but sainz was in constant troubles with degradation.
The fact that Verstappen said the hard tire had no deg (and backed up by the lap times) is why I felt that the safety car that they are claiming "stole the race" from Leclerc was completely irrelevant. Verstappen could go as fast as he wanted and there was no deg. He had about a 3.5 second gap to Leclerc with 25 laps out of the 56 (?). The Ferrari wasn't as good on the hard tire. Leclerc would have been caught and passed. Verstappen wouldn't have had the front wing damage either.

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yeah it seems quite plausible. And lets not kid ourselves, FW damage wasnt just superficial, it definetly cost performance

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Likely there was more damage? Quite some carbon flew over the track. Side of the floor?

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:48 pm
Likely there was more damage? Quite some carbon flew over the track. Side of the floor?
Russell's front left wheel cover.

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organic
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Rumours are JP Morgan could strike a large partnership/sponsorship with RBR in next few months. More money for PU division

https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/excl ... hip-talks/

marcel171281
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Imagine what Adrian Newey and his team would build without a budgetcap/windtunnel ristrictions and all these massive sponsor incomes.

mendis
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:51 am
Rumours are JP Morgan could strike a large partnership/sponsorship with RBR in next few months. More money for PU division

https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/excl ... hip-talks/
This is only going to enhance the bottom-line. I don't think this helps in PU development as that is under budget cap, including Capital expenditure and they have more than necessary already with their current revenues.