2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
CHT
CHT
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

wuzak wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:02 am
CHT wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:52 pm
Can Formula 1 possibly become fully electric? Based on current EV technology I reckon it will be difficult due to its weight. In Formula E, though the cars are smaller, they are heavier than F1, while the race distances are shorter only 80 to 90km vs 305km for F1.

As I read, the new 2026 engine is going to be challenging because the PU will be limited by energy flow instead of fuel flow.
The next generation of Formula E cars has recharging, so they have reduced the battery and weight.
F1 without ICE is like a body without soul. The car may still run, but spectators will be bored to death.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59556016

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

CHT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:33 am
wuzak wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:02 am
CHT wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:52 pm
Can Formula 1 possibly become fully electric? Based on current EV technology I reckon it will be difficult due to its weight. In Formula E, though the cars are smaller, they are heavier than F1, while the race distances are shorter only 80 to 90km vs 305km for F1.

As I read, the new 2026 engine is going to be challenging because the PU will be limited by energy flow instead of fuel flow.
The next generation of Formula E cars has recharging, so they have reduced the battery and weight.
F1 without ICE is like a body without soul. The car may still run, but spectators will be bored to death.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59556016
Exactly......a little like going to a stadium music concert to listen to the electricity sub station transforming voltage :D

Evidence M'lud.... a fine Italian mechanical voice from history ! :)

mzso
mzso
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

CHT wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:52 pm
Can Formula 1 possibly become fully electric? Based on current EV technology I reckon it will be difficult due to its weight. In Formula E, though the cars are smaller, they are heavier than F1, while the race distances are shorter only 80 to 90km vs 305km for F1.

As I read, the new 2026 engine is going to be challenging because the PU will be limited by energy flow instead of fuel flow.
Of course. It would need to be fuel cell powered though to remain similar. Otherwise it would be battery swaps every 5-10 laps.
CHT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:33 am

F1 without ICE is like a body without soul. The car may still run, but spectators will be bored to death.
This sort of nonsense I heard many times.
People kept watching all the boring gunk that F1 delivered for many years. Electricity wouldn't matter one bit.
The entertainment is in the racing, not in expelling toxic smoke.

mzso
mzso
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

wuzak wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:02 am
The next generation of Formula E cars has recharging, so they have reduced the battery and weight.
And how will they manage that? Connect a plug to a car that's racing?

CHT
CHT
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:24 am

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

mzso wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:04 pm
CHT wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:52 pm
Can Formula 1 possibly become fully electric? Based on current EV technology I reckon it will be difficult due to its weight. In Formula E, though the cars are smaller, they are heavier than F1, while the race distances are shorter only 80 to 90km vs 305km for F1.

As I read, the new 2026 engine is going to be challenging because the PU will be limited by energy flow instead of fuel flow.
Of course. It would need to be fuel cell powered though to remain similar. Otherwise it would be battery swaps every 5-10 laps.
CHT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:33 am

F1 without ICE is like a body without soul. The car may still run, but spectators will be bored to death.
This sort of nonsense I heard many times.
People kept watching all the boring gunk that F1 delivered for many years. Electricity wouldn't matter one bit.
The entertainment is in the racing, not in expelling toxic smoke.
the problem with the battery is weight, and to do a 305km race, cars will need a huge amount of storage capacity, and a fully electric F1 car may end up weighing over 1000kg. And of course, "refueling" or switching cars just to fulfill the distance is possible, but what is the point?

FIA has been running Formula E for some time now, and global TV viewer is around 316m vs 1.55 billion for F1, and these numbers are important for sponsorship. Race audience-wise wise Formula E is averaging around 15,000 vs 200,000 per race for F1. And without the crowd, it will be impossible for organizers to bring in major trackside events and all the whistles and bells to generate substantial income to cover the cost of hosting.

If electric doesn't matter, how about F1 E-Sports virtual racing? I reckon it will just be as exciting to watch on TV since it involve real F1 driver racing each other

CHT
CHT
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:24 am

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

mzso wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:16 pm
wuzak wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:02 am
The next generation of Formula E cars has recharging, so they have reduced the battery and weight.
And how will they manage that? Connect a plug to a car that's racing?
Perhaps harvesting electric energy during braking, but that will be better done and more effective via what we already have in F1.

wuzak
wuzak
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

mzso wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:16 pm
wuzak wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:02 am
The next generation of Formula E cars has recharging, so they have reduced the battery and weight.
And how will they manage that? Connect a plug to a car that's racing?
Fast chargers in pit stops.

mzso
mzso
61
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

CHT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:39 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:04 pm
CHT wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:52 pm
Can Formula 1 possibly become fully electric? Based on current EV technology I reckon it will be difficult due to its weight. In Formula E, though the cars are smaller, they are heavier than F1, while the race distances are shorter only 80 to 90km vs 305km for F1.

As I read, the new 2026 engine is going to be challenging because the PU will be limited by energy flow instead of fuel flow.
Of course. It would need to be fuel cell powered though to remain similar. Otherwise it would be battery swaps every 5-10 laps.
CHT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:33 am

F1 without ICE is like a body without soul. The car may still run, but spectators will be bored to death.
This sort of nonsense I heard many times.
People kept watching all the boring gunk that F1 delivered for many years. Electricity wouldn't matter one bit.
The entertainment is in the racing, not in expelling toxic smoke.
the problem with the battery is weight, and to do a 305km race, cars will need a huge amount of storage capacity, and a fully electric F1 car may end up weighing over 1000kg. And of course, "refueling" or switching cars just to fulfill the distance is possible, but what is the point?

FIA has been running Formula E for some time now, and global TV viewer is around 316m vs 1.55 billion for F1, and these numbers are important for sponsorship. Race audience-wise wise Formula E is averaging around 15,000 vs 200,000 per race for F1. And without the crowd, it will be impossible for organizers to bring in major trackside events and all the whistles and bells to generate substantial income to cover the cost of hosting.

If electric doesn't matter, how about F1 E-Sports virtual racing? I reckon it will just be as exciting to watch on TV since it involve real F1 driver racing each other
Are you write only and immune to reading what people reply to you? You just regurgitated some nonsense, even though in my comment you quoted, I described two other approaches.

"but what is the point? " I ask you the same thing about this remark, there isn't any particular problem with switching cars. The obvious point of it is allow racing with light cars.

The audience number is of no relevance. F1 pulls in the big number because of tradition, marketing and "prestige".
CHT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:39 pm
If electric doesn't matter, how about F1 E-Sports virtual racing? I reckon it will just be as exciting to watch on TV since it involve real F1 driver racing each other
And now you descended to be completely fallacious, with this silly pseudo-argument. E-sports have nothing to do with what we're talking about.

mzso
mzso
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

wuzak wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:03 am
mzso wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:16 pm
wuzak wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:02 am
The next generation of Formula E cars has recharging, so they have reduced the battery and weight.
And how will they manage that? Connect a plug to a car that's racing?
Fast chargers in pit stops.
Sure, but that would mean 5 minute pit stops. Unless they're going back to car swaps, which defeats the purpose of the whole thing.
CHT wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:46 am
mzso wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:16 pm
wuzak wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:02 am
The next generation of Formula E cars has recharging, so they have reduced the battery and weight.
And how will they manage that? Connect a plug to a car that's racing?
Perhaps harvesting electric energy during braking, but that will be better done and more effective via what we already have in F1.
Definitely not. It's the same thing. Also AFAIK FE doesn't impose restrictions, so they can recover everything possible, with a higher power motor.

CHT
CHT
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:24 am

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

mzso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:35 am
CHT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:39 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:04 pm


Of course. It would need to be fuel cell powered though to remain similar. Otherwise it would be battery swaps every 5-10 laps.


This sort of nonsense I heard many times.
People kept watching all the boring gunk that F1 delivered for many years. Electricity wouldn't matter one bit.
The entertainment is in the racing, not in expelling toxic smoke.
the problem with the battery is weight, and to do a 305km race, cars will need a huge amount of storage capacity, and a fully electric F1 car may end up weighing over 1000kg. And of course, "refueling" or switching cars just to fulfill the distance is possible, but what is the point?

FIA has been running Formula E for some time now, and global TV viewer is around 316m vs 1.55 billion for F1, and these numbers are important for sponsorship. Race audience-wise wise Formula E is averaging around 15,000 vs 200,000 per race for F1. And without the crowd, it will be impossible for organizers to bring in major trackside events and all the whistles and bells to generate substantial income to cover the cost of hosting.

If electric doesn't matter, how about F1 E-Sports virtual racing? I reckon it will just be as exciting to watch on TV since it involve real F1 driver racing each other
Are you write only and immune to reading what people reply to you? You just regurgitated some nonsense, even though in my comment you quoted, I described two other approaches.

"but what is the point? " I ask you the same thing about this remark, there isn't any particular problem with switching cars. The obvious point of it is allow racing with light cars.

The audience number is of no relevance. F1 pulls in the big number because of tradition, marketing and "prestige".
CHT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:39 pm
If electric doesn't matter, how about F1 E-Sports virtual racing? I reckon it will just be as exciting to watch on TV since it involve real F1 driver racing each other
And now you descended to be completely fallacious, with this silly pseudo-argument. E-sports have nothing to do with what we're talking about.
As I said before, the numbers Formula E is pulling in at the moment are nowhere near the F1 level. be it race attendance, TV viewers, ticket revenue, sponsorships, hype, speed, etc. For this reason, I am skeptical that based on current EV technology F1 is ready to switch to full electric while continuing to deliver the same level of entertainment and excitement for trackside fans and TV viewers.

When F1 do go fully electric, I reckon half the workforce in the factories may be made redundant due to fewer moving parts and fewer cooling needs

Your argument here is that when comes to PU, ICE engine sound and noise will make no difference to TV viewers. For the same reason, can we also say that TV viewers will not care too much if it's E-sport either since it's still "racing". Just get all the rookies, current and ex WDC on E-Sport and swap cars I think that will be exciting to watch, and its GREEN. Perhaps a newer generation of F1 fans who have never seen or heard ICE engine will not mind if it is electric.

Did you catch the video of Tesla cyber truck beating a Porsche 911 in a drag race while towing another 911? I reckon that is the type of boredom that I hope will not happen to F1. Imagine BYD joining F1 and beating Merc F1 in performance and range.

Personally after watching high-reving V10 and V8 era F1, I still feel that something is missing with the current hybrid engine and that is something FIA is hoping to bring back in 2026, and that is engine noise.

mzso
mzso
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

You can't interpret what others say. Or refuse to.
F1 gets the views and the monea because it's F1, which FE isn't.
Sim racing doesn't matter because it's not car racing and definitely not F1.
So you're afraid of new manufacturers beating the old dinosaurs? Then you don't care for racing at all...
Just watching old brands making a lot of noise pollution.

wuzak
wuzak
447
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

mzso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:38 am
wuzak wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:03 am
mzso wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:16 pm


And how will they manage that? Connect a plug to a car that's racing?
Fast chargers in pit stops.
Sure, but that would mean 5 minute pit stops. Unless they're going back to car swaps, which defeats the purpose of the whole thing.
600kW charge for about 30s is the plan.

mzso
mzso
61
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

wuzak wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:50 pm
mzso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:38 am
wuzak wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:03 am


Fast chargers in pit stops.
Sure, but that would mean 5 minute pit stops. Unless they're going back to car swaps, which defeats the purpose of the whole thing.
600kW charge for about 30s is the plan.
So that's around 5KWh? Is that good for much?

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:24 am

Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

mzso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:30 pm
You can't interpret what others say. Or refuse to.
F1 gets the views and the monea because it's F1, which FE isn't.
Sim racing doesn't matter because it's not car racing and definitely not F1.
So you're afraid of new manufacturers beating the old dinosaurs? Then you don't care for racing at all...
Just watching old brands making a lot of noise pollution.
There are scientific reasons and commercial facts and figures why F1 is not ready for full electric and I hope you can take some time to digest that information first before trying to put cart before horses.

Ultimate F1 is about technology and science, not based on some fancy ideas and trying to reinvent the wheel of motorsports entertainment.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59556016

https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/37 ... le-science

https://frontofficesports.com/formula-1 ... Domenicali.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: 2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

Post

mzso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:54 pm
wuzak wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:50 pm
mzso wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:38 am
Sure, but that would mean 5 minute pit stops. Unless they're going back to car swaps, which defeats the purpose of the whole thing.
600kW charge for about 30s is the plan.
So that's around 5KWh? Is that good for much?
600 kW for 30 sec is 804 bhp for 30 sec
with recovery that's enough for 1 lap