2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[denyall]

Helping Lewis do that is what they should do (back the best driver). It is what Redbull do every weekend for example.

But it's Mercedes. They will likely try and make it 'fair' and in doing so will not win against a team that is doing the above.

I agree with Redbull by the way - I'm not saying it as a negative thing towards them. If you want to win then that is what you do.

I see this sentiment a lot, however it doesn't really hold water. Sure when Mercedes were guaranteed to win the WCC they let their drivers fight it out for the WDC. When they have no chance at the WCC these last two seasons, they let their drivers find it out for the best finishing position they can. When it matters, like it did in 2021, the team definitely backed Lewis to the detriment of Valtteri.

[Hammerfist]

Helping Lewis do that is what they should do (back the best driver). It is what Redbull do every weekend for example.

But it's Mercedes. They will likely try and make it 'fair' and in doing so will not win against a team that is doing the above.

I agree with Redbull by the way - I'm not saying it as a negative thing towards them. If you want to win then that is what you do.

I see this sentiment a lot, however it doesn't really hold water. Sure when Mercedes were guaranteed to win the WCC they let their drivers fight it out for the WDC. When they have no chance at the WCC these last two seasons, they let their drivers find it out for the best finishing position they can. When it matters, like it did in 2021, the team definitely backed Lewis to the detriment of Valtteri.

Mercedes always started the season giving bottas equal treatment. It wasnt until lewis was way ahead in the points that they favored him over bottas. Even in 21 at the austrian race hamilton was asked to give up the position to bottas because he had less pace and his car was damaged.

Will they favor lewis over george in a championship battle based on previous years evidence? Absolutely not unless lewis can pull away from george in the points. Thats how they operate and thats how they will continue to operate.

[denyall]

Specific examples aside, what I said holds true over a season.

[Big Tea]

I suppose the question should be reworked to also ask would George take a good seat if offered to him while we are discussing it?

TBH, at the moment the only 2 worth mentioning are at Red Bull, who are likely to be back amongst for at least a season or two with the engine swap, or Ferrari who have one seat sold until the end of the decade.

An outlier like Aston with Alonso is a distant possibility but that seems the whole field. To most it would seem like a done deal as there is no real alternative either way so I am probably wasting a post

[AR3-GP]

I suppose the question should be reworked to also ask would George take a good seat if offered to him while we are discussing it?

A good question. Aston Martin, Mclaren, Red Bull. He would be a candidate at any of those teams. RB reportedly approached him already just before he signed with Merc.

[DGP123]

That was then, this is now. He was hyped as the next big thing at Merc, but if he has another two years of being comfortably beaten by an ageing Lewis, then there won’t be any top seats being offered to him. The sport is ruthless and teams move on very quickly.

[CHT]

With Merc securing long-term engine supply contract with Mclaren and the possibility of Toto selling the Merc team, I wonder if Merc will continue their F1 with Merc AMG F1 since they have already reduced their stake from 60 to 30%.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... rts-pundit

[Henri]

With Merc securing long-term engine supply contract with Mclaren and the possibility of Toto selling the Merc team, I wonder if Merc will continue their F1 with Merc AMG F1 since they have already reduced their stake from 60 to 30%.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... rts-pundit

Stop posting gossip

[mendis]

With Merc securing long-term engine supply contract with Mclaren and the possibility of Toto selling the Merc team, I wonder if Merc will continue their F1 with Merc AMG F1 since they have already reduced their stake from 60 to 30%.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... rts-pundit

Toto is an investor and no investor would let go of a golden opportunity to get optimum returns on his investment. It's not a good news for an investor if the valuation of the team goes down due to it's lack of success. I wouldn't be surprised if he sells his stake in the team.

This team is a good brand value for Mercedes and there is no reason for them to sell it, regardless of stock value. Moreover, with cost cap, they are a profitable outfit.

[maygun]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... p-allison/

Interesting comments about how the team disfunctioned during the last two years because of the pressure.

I think most of this is due to poor leadership from Toto more than Mike Elliot. In any company when the top management pressures the teams without listening/coordinating/unblocking them this is the result. I hope James saw this miscommunication issue early so that the new car developed in a more productive environment.

[denyall]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... p-allison/

Interesting comments about how the team disfunctioned during the last two years because of the pressure.

I think most of this is due to poor leadership from Toto more than Mike Elliot. In any company when the top management pressures the teams without listening/coordinating/unblocking them this is the result. I hope James saw this miscommunication issue early so that the new car developed in a more productive environment.

You believe the poor leadership is from Toto, who lead the team through multiple reg changes and to 8 WCC, not the lead Engineer who had the role for 18 months and subsequently stepped down, and then left the team?

Elliot (And Allison) job is to get engineers to work together to make the best car possible. Toto job is to hire the best Technical director possible. The only failure I see from him is waiting too long to make a change in leadership.

[CHT]

With Merc securing long-term engine supply contract with Mclaren and the possibility of Toto selling the Merc team, I wonder if Merc will continue their F1 with Merc AMG F1 since they have already reduced their stake from 60 to 30%.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... rts-pundit

Toto is an investor and no investor would let go of a golden opportunity to get optimum returns on his investment. It's not a good news for an investor if the valuation of the team goes down due to it's lack of success. I wouldn't be surprised if he sells his stake in the team.

This team is a good brand value for Mercedes and there is no reason for them to sell it, regardless of stock value. Moreover, with cost cap, they are a profitable outfit.

I thought of that for Merc too, but back in 2021, Merc did sell half of its 60% stake to INEOS investment group, a company that is involved in sports such as football rugby cycling sailing, etc, and recently tried to bid for ManU.

If Merc is seeking long-term control over the team, I suppose they will want to maintain at least 51% controlling stake as the majority shareholder. Suppose if Toto decides to sell, INEOS and Merc will likely have the first right to acquisition. For Merc, it's most unlikely since they had just trimmed their shareholding. For INEOS, they will most certainly be interested since they are a deep-pocket sports investment company, for sure they will be looking at buying low instead of high. In a business transaction, one man's loss is another man's gain.

[CHT]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... p-allison/

Interesting comments about how the team disfunctioned during the last two years because of the pressure.

I think most of this is due to poor leadership from Toto more than Mike Elliot. In any company when the top management pressures the teams without listening/coordinating/unblocking them this is the result. I hope James saw this miscommunication issue early so that the new car developed in a more productive environment.

The change may coincide with the period when Merc decides to sell part of the company to INEOS Group. As employees at Merc, I am sure many will ask why Merc decided to cut its ownership and where the future lies under the ownership of a billionaire and investment company instead of the car manufacturer.

[mendis]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... p-allison/

Interesting comments about how the team disfunctioned during the last two years because of the pressure.

I think most of this is due to poor leadership from Toto more than Mike Elliot. In any company when the top management pressures the teams without listening/coordinating/unblocking them this is the result. I hope James saw this miscommunication issue early so that the new car developed in a more productive environment.

You believe the poor leadership is from Toto, who lead the team through multiple reg changes and to 8 WCC, not the lead Engineer who had the role for 18 months and subsequently stepped down, and then left the team?

Elliot (And Allison) job is to get engineers to work together to make the best car possible. Toto job is to hire the best Technical director possible. The only failure I see from him is waiting too long to make a change in leadership.

It's the same lead engineer (Elliott) that was responsible for all the development in those 8 years as the chief of aerodynamics! If he had to go, then why not Toto?

[denyall]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... p-allison/

Interesting comments about how the team disfunctioned during the last two years because of the pressure.

I think most of this is due to poor leadership from Toto more than Mike Elliot. In any company when the top management pressures the teams without listening/coordinating/unblocking them this is the result. I hope James saw this miscommunication issue early so that the new car developed in a more productive environment.

You believe the poor leadership is from Toto, who lead the team through multiple reg changes and to 8 WCC, not the lead Engineer who had the role for 18 months and subsequently stepped down, and then left the team?

Elliot (And Allison) job is to get engineers to work together to make the best car possible. Toto job is to hire the best Technical director possible. The only failure I see from him is waiting too long to make a change in leadership.

It's the same lead engineer (Elliott) that was responsible for all the development in those 8 years as the chief of aerodynamics! If he had to go, then why not Toto?

Leading like minded people isn't as great a challenge as leading teams who represent competing interests. Elliot failed to create an environment where the fastest ideas made it to the car. Either by a lack of understanding other aspects of the car (engine, suspension, structural, etc.) or understanding but assigning incorrect priorities, Elliot failed to produce a winning car. When crisis struck, Elliot failed to reprioritize and focus the team of engineers, instead he created the silos that Allison says he's worked to break down. Time will tell if Allison righted the ship, however Elliots time (as technical director) was up.

Toto let Elliot run his team and gave him (probably too much) space to build the car. When he recognized that the situation was unrecoverable, he made the necessary changes to correct his mistake in appointing Elliot.

The situation reflects good leadership by Toto.