2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Henri
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:42 pm
Thanks, yes, that seems like the most fair way to compare data. They will surely have the 23 data up over the next month then. For George imho it is quite “good luck” that Mercedes is not fighting for the world title in his first seasons there. Now the scrutiny he is under is much less and that will allow him the years needed to polish the talent he undoubtedly has. But for now, Lewis increased the average pace gap over this year.
George did have good luck but still performed well against Lewis.. george is fast but not rosberg level.. rosberg was a beast in qualifying

RonMexico
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Call it now, will Russell be retained post 2025?

skoop
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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RonMexico wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2023 11:07 am
Call it now, will Russell be retained post 2025?
Yes, they'll support Lewis in pursuing title number 8 and when he retires, George will become team leader.

djones
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Helping Lewis do that is what they should do (back the best driver). It is what Redbull do every weekend for example.

But it's Mercedes. They will likely try and make it 'fair' and in doing so will not win against a team that is doing the above.

I agree with Redbull by the way - I'm not saying it as a negative thing towards them. If you want to win then that is what you do.

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denyall
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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djones wrote:Helping Lewis do that is what they should do (back the best driver). It is what Redbull do every weekend for example.

But it's Mercedes. They will likely try and make it 'fair' and in doing so will not win against a team that is doing the above.

I agree with Redbull by the way - I'm not saying it as a negative thing towards them. If you want to win then that is what you do.
I see this sentiment a lot, however it doesn't really hold water. Sure when Mercedes were guaranteed to win the WCC they let their drivers fight it out for the WDC. When they have no chance at the WCC these last two seasons, they let their drivers find it out for the best finishing position they can. When it matters, like it did in 2021, the team definitely backed Lewis to the detriment of Valtteri.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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denyall wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2023 4:56 pm
djones wrote:Helping Lewis do that is what they should do (back the best driver). It is what Redbull do every weekend for example.

But it's Mercedes. They will likely try and make it 'fair' and in doing so will not win against a team that is doing the above.

I agree with Redbull by the way - I'm not saying it as a negative thing towards them. If you want to win then that is what you do.
I see this sentiment a lot, however it doesn't really hold water. Sure when Mercedes were guaranteed to win the WCC they let their drivers fight it out for the WDC. When they have no chance at the WCC these last two seasons, they let their drivers find it out for the best finishing position they can. When it matters, like it did in 2021, the team definitely backed Lewis to the detriment of Valtteri.
Mercedes always started the season giving bottas equal treatment. It wasnt until lewis was way ahead in the points that they favored him over bottas. Even in 21 at the austrian race hamilton was asked to give up the position to bottas because he had less pace and his car was damaged.

Will they favor lewis over george in a championship battle based on previous years evidence? Absolutely not unless lewis can pull away from george in the points. Thats how they operate and thats how they will continue to operate.

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denyall
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Specific examples aside, what I said holds true over a season.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I suppose the question should be reworked to also ask would George take a good seat if offered to him while we are discussing it?

TBH, at the moment the only 2 worth mentioning are at Red Bull, who are likely to be back amongst for at least a season or two with the engine swap, or Ferrari who have one seat sold until the end of the decade.

An outlier like Aston with Alonso is a distant possibility but that seems the whole field. To most it would seem like a done deal as there is no real alternative either way so I am probably wasting a post :D
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:59 pm
I suppose the question should be reworked to also ask would George take a good seat if offered to him while we are discussing it?
A good question. Aston Martin, Mclaren, Red Bull. He would be a candidate at any of those teams. RB reportedly approached him already just before he signed with Merc.

DGP123
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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That was then, this is now. He was hyped as the next big thing at Merc, but if he has another two years of being comfortably beaten by an ageing Lewis, then there won’t be any top seats being offered to him. The sport is ruthless and teams move on very quickly.

CHT
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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With Merc securing long-term engine supply contract with Mclaren and the possibility of Toto selling the Merc team, I wonder if Merc will continue their F1 with Merc AMG F1 since they have already reduced their stake from 60 to 30%.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... rts-pundit

Henri
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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CHT wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:41 pm
With Merc securing long-term engine supply contract with Mclaren and the possibility of Toto selling the Merc team, I wonder if Merc will continue their F1 with Merc AMG F1 since they have already reduced their stake from 60 to 30%.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... rts-pundit
Stop posting gossip

mendis
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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CHT wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:41 pm
With Merc securing long-term engine supply contract with Mclaren and the possibility of Toto selling the Merc team, I wonder if Merc will continue their F1 with Merc AMG F1 since they have already reduced their stake from 60 to 30%.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... rts-pundit
Toto is an investor and no investor would let go of a golden opportunity to get optimum returns on his investment. It's not a good news for an investor if the valuation of the team goes down due to it's lack of success. I wouldn't be surprised if he sells his stake in the team.

This team is a good brand value for Mercedes and there is no reason for them to sell it, regardless of stock value. Moreover, with cost cap, they are a profitable outfit.

maygun
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... p-allison/

Interesting comments about how the team disfunctioned during the last two years because of the pressure.

I think most of this is due to poor leadership from Toto more than Mike Elliot. In any company when the top management pressures the teams without listening/coordinating/unblocking them this is the result. I hope James saw this miscommunication issue early so that the new car developed in a more productive environment.

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denyall
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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maygun wrote:https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... p-allison/

Interesting comments about how the team disfunctioned during the last two years because of the pressure.

I think most of this is due to poor leadership from Toto more than Mike Elliot. In any company when the top management pressures the teams without listening/coordinating/unblocking them this is the result. I hope James saw this miscommunication issue early so that the new car developed in a more productive environment.
You believe the poor leadership is from Toto, who lead the team through multiple reg changes and to 8 WCC, not the lead Engineer who had the role for 18 months and subsequently stepped down, and then left the team?

Elliot (And Allison) job is to get engineers to work together to make the best car possible. Toto job is to hire the best Technical director possible. The only failure I see from him is waiting too long to make a change in leadership.