Hypercars

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
OO7
OO7
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Re: Hypercars

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gruntguru wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 4:20 am
Low-revving turbo motor. It will never sound as good as the Cosworth V12 in the GMA T.50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FwkZFJLtS0

Agree with Greg on the TV problem. PTO is at the end of the crank. This engine will never be able to rev like the T.50. Won' even be able to match the firing frequency I bet. (Would need 9,000 rpm to do that.)
I think that would depend on the exhaust layout as well. The Pagani Huayra R revs to 9200 rpm and sounds better (in my opinion) than the Cosworth engines.
EDIT: You mentioned low revving turbo motor, Engineering Explained reckons it's an NA V16.
EDIT 2: Just realised how late my post is, as the above has already been answered.

The Bugatti V16 sounds very much like the 135 degree BRM V16, so I assume the firing order is similar. I would have loved for Bugatti to design a 90 degree V, with a flat plane crank or rather an eccentric/unequal V16 crank, with two angles at 45 degrees and the other two at 135 degrees.
Image

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: Hypercars

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a V16 crankshaft layout will depend on the V angle chosen ....
this being 90 deg the crankshaft layout is like 2 crossplane V8 crankshafts joined at 45 deg
(if it was a 45 deg or 135 deg V16 the crankshaft would be like a normal straight 8 crankshaft)

EDIT the above is from the Engineering Explained video on the new Bugatti etc (sorry - I forgot to say that)
said video will be offered after watching the Bugatti video on here a few days ago
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on Sat Mar 09, 2024 9:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

OO7
OO7
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Re: Hypercars

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:54 pm
a V16 crankshaft layout will depend on the V angle chosen ....

this being 90 deg the crankshaft layout is like 2 crossplane V8 crankshafts joined at 45 deg
(if it was a 45 deg or 135 deg V16 the crankshaft would be like a normal straight 8 crankshaft)
Couldn't you have a 90 degree 'V' with the type of crank I described, in the same way a V8 can have a crossplane or flatplane crank, as it would still lead to firing every 45 degrees. With your example a cylinder in each bank will mirror each others throw, so for example one cylinder in the left bank and one in the right will be at TDC simultaneously. In the example I provided, two cylinders in the same bank will match each others position, like in a flatplane V8.

This is how it would look below.
NOTE: The numbers at the end of the crank throws are just to illustrate the number of arms attached and don't indicate any particular order/firing order, however two arms on each crank throw will be positioned in the left bank and the other two in the right bank. The illustration also doesn't display the distance between crank pins, so a pin holding two arms could be positioned at one end of the crankshaft, while the other pin (holding two arms) on the same throw, is at the other end of the crankshaft.
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Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: Hypercars

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I forgot to say the point of my post was based on the Engineering Explained youtube video on the Bugatti

also there was a WW2 Chrysler 90 deg V16 aircraft engine - but I don't know about the crankshaft layout

few examples of 90 deg V16s .....
the point of eg railway V16s was that 45 deg minimised width (or they had twin-crank 'double' inlines)

OO7
OO7
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Re: Hypercars

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:05 pm
I forgot to say the point of my post was based on the Engineering Explained youtube video on the Bugatti

also there was a WW2 Chrysler 90 deg V16 aircraft engine - but I don't know about the crankshaft layout

few examples of 90 deg V16s .....
the point of eg railway V16s was that 45 deg minimised width (or they had twin-crank 'double' inlines)
Unfortunately I could only find info on the inverted Chrysler V16, which had banks set at 60°. I've been trying for many years to find out if a crankshaft layout like the one I illustrated has ever or could ever be used in reality, but haven't found anything to corroborate or disprove.

The double straight 8 is an interesting design. Wiki describes it as a 'U' engine.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: Hypercars

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OO7 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:51 pm
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:05 pm
I forgot to say the point of my post was based on the Engineering Explained youtube video on the Bugatti
also there was a WW2 Chrysler 90 deg V16 aircraft engine - but I don't know about the crankshaft layout
few examples of 90 deg V16s .....
the point of eg railway V16s was that 45 deg minimised width (or they had twin-crank 'double' inlines)
Unfortunately I could only find info on the inverted Chrysler V16, which had banks set at 60°. I've been trying for many years to find out if a crankshaft layout like the one I illustrated has ever or could ever be used in reality, but haven't found anything to corroborate or disprove.
The double straight 8 is an interesting design. Wiki describes it as a 'U' engine.
yes my mistake - the Chrysler was 60 deg
a U16 could have ....
the power takeoff position equivalent to the centre of a V16 crankshaft
coupling gear loads reduced or eliminated if having a crankshaft-driven supercharger
narrower lighter block etc by crankshaft sweeps intersecting (even-fire U8 would cancel secondary vibration forces)
but the U maybe belongs in history

a 90 deg V16 could have a very simple crankshaft eg a Honda NR500 had 8 rods but only one crankpin angle
the WW1 Napier Cub had a simple crankshaft but 16 cylinders and 4 unequal banks

btw in WW2 Paxman made a few (unreliable) 1000 hp V16 versions of their 750 hp V12 - 3 per RN Motor Gun Boat
unarmed merchant-registered MGB versions were used to breach the Kriegsmarine blockade of the Baltic
(I knew one such former RNVR Commander - he had lost a leg, an arm, and an eye)

gruntguru
gruntguru
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Re: Hypercars

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:22 pm
(I knew one such former RNVR Commander - he had lost a leg, an arm, and an eye)
Hopefully not in three seperate events.
je suis charlie

Cold Fussion
Cold Fussion
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Re: Hypercars

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Fakepivot
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Re: Hypercars

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where did they go flat out? top gear is so meh these days..

gruntguru
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Re: Hypercars

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Boring sound (low revving V8?) - I am sure you could make a BB Chev sound similar for a little less money and half the cylinder number.
je suis charlie

Cold Fussion
Cold Fussion
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Re: Hypercars

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gruntguru wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:27 pm
Boring sound (low revving V8?) - I am sure you could make a BB Chev sound similar for a little less money and half the cylinder number.
It's the usual w16.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Hypercars

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2m block+gearbox in the back, wouldn’t that cause a relative forward seating position? Like a normal family car, without the rear seats?

Why not let the ICE drive the front, like a
Inverted transaxle and the two electric motors the rear wheels. Have the transmission in the tunnel between the seats.

OO7
OO7
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Re: Hypercars

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It's a shame there aren't any modern, NA, V16 racing/sportscar engines out there, as I'd like to do a sound comparison with a V12. I'd expect a V16 (for a similar displacement and exhaust configuration) to have a higher pitch and sound like two flat plane V8s working in concert, but they typically (old versions) sound like higher pitched cross plane V8's. I'm guessing that's down to the exhaust manifold design/straight pipes.

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Stu
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Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Hypercars

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NL_Fer wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:32 am

Why not let the ICE drive the front, like a
Inverted transaxle and the two electric motors the rear wheels. Have the transmission in the tunnel between the seats.
Just like the aborted Nissan LMP project?
Given time & development that could have mixed with the front-runners.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Cold Fussion
Cold Fussion
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Re: Hypercars

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OO7 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:05 pm
It's a shame there aren't any modern, NA, V16 racing/sportscar engines out there, as I'd like to do a sound comparison with a V12. I'd expect a V16 (for a similar displacement and exhaust configuration) to have a higher pitch and sound like two flat plane V8s working in concert, but they typically (old versions) sound like higher pitched cross plane V8's. I'm guessing that's down to the exhaust manifold design/straight pipes.
The new Bugatti in development is using a Cosworth made V16 that revs to 9000 rpm, so you'll get your comparison in the next couple years.
Stu wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2024 7:11 pm
Just like the aborted Nissan LMP project?
Given time & development that could have mixed with the front-runners.
Wasn't the Nissan lmp1 car basically the same pace as lmp2 at Le Mans? I don't see why that would have ever been competitive.