2025 car comparison thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Vanja #66 wrote: ↑
02 Apr 2025, 11:29

🟧 McLaren have found a way to control these vertical kicks and the downforce they generate across various ride heights. This is the big tricky topic, as massive kick surface can generate massive downforce peak that disappears if the kick stalls locally - while also leading to high-speed bouncing that Ferrari struggled with.

I believe this floor design is part of the reason McLaren exhibits lower Top Speed figures, both with and without DRS, compared to rest of Top 4 cars.

I have difficulty believing that an underbody section could be responsible for consuming so much energy. They are often 5-6 km/h down on the others. Remember that this has been the case since 2022. They had a different diffuser geometry back then.

Could it not be some kind of chassis drag or an inefficient cooling system?
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Vanja #66
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Their front wing is also a lot bigger than the rest of Top 4

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SiLo
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Vanja #66 wrote: ↑
09 Apr 2025, 09:39
Their front wing is also a lot bigger than the rest of Top 4

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GoATADAXgAA ... name=large
Less AoA across the whole wing maybe? Wonder if a larger blockage but at a lower angle has some kind of benefits for the floor entrance.
Felipe Baby!

AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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SiLo wrote: ↑
09 Apr 2025, 17:52
Vanja #66 wrote: ↑
09 Apr 2025, 09:39
Their front wing is also a lot bigger than the rest of Top 4

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GoATADAXgAA ... name=large
Less AoA across the whole wing maybe? Wonder if a larger blockage but at a lower angle has some kind of benefits for the floor entrance.
Mclaren seems to have lots of downforce (which moves the drag scale), but not so much downforce that seems to correlate with a 5-6km/h straightline deficiency. So I think it's less efficient than other teams, as has been the case since 2022. The drag generators are probably hidden in plain sight.
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Vanja #66
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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SiLo wrote: ↑
09 Apr 2025, 17:52
Less AoA across the whole wing maybe? Wonder if a larger blockage but at a lower angle has some kind of benefits for the floor entrance.
It's more AoA actually. Can't have less AoA and taller wing if they are all pushing the total chord to the limit
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Farnborough
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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AR3-GP wrote: ↑
09 Apr 2025, 08:20
Vanja #66 wrote: ↑
02 Apr 2025, 11:29

🟧 McLaren have found a way to control these vertical kicks and the downforce they generate across various ride heights. This is the big tricky topic, as massive kick surface can generate massive downforce peak that disappears if the kick stalls locally - while also leading to high-speed bouncing that Ferrari struggled with.

I believe this floor design is part of the reason McLaren exhibits lower Top Speed figures, both with and without DRS, compared to rest of Top 4 cars.

I have difficulty believing that an underbody section could be responsible for consuming so much energy. They are often 5-6 km/h down on the others. Remember that this has been the case since 2022. They had a different diffuser geometry back then.

Could it not be some kind of chassis drag or an inefficient cooling system?
I see it the same as you've indicated, that very careful application and understanding of this effect will pay dividend in then trying to control it via suspension design and component. Clearly a good understanding here allows performance gain while mitigating down side.

There's possibility here that McL have also found / developed in those suspension component as well though. They being the original users of the inerta type heave control that became de facto equipment on all of the cars until these new rules excluded them.

Reference for that component and it's origins https://www.formula1-dictionary.net/j-damper.html to help evaluation.

Rather than a component by component examination in conventional terms, that looked at what needed to be done then applying much broader input to solve by making equivalence in electrical handling and particularly capacitance, as I understand that.

If these current limitations were to be examined to same effect, then characteristic curves, linearity, reciprocal (or reciprocal failure) will give a better picture of the task, that being devoid of current equipment limitations.

Plotting in opposition to the curve response that's undesirable would give firstly an outlook of task, then to find IF that can be enacted while staying within current regulation.

They may have on that car something in "heave" spring architecture that enacts this line of thought to better effect than other teams.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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SirBastianVettel
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Does anyone know how much they are allowed to deflect under the current rules using the visual check using the cameras?

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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SirBastianVettel wrote: ↑
10 Apr 2025, 09:56
Does anyone know how much they are allowed to deflect under the current rules using the visual check using the cameras?
It should be around the level of current RB21 flexing, but after Baku 2024 - and especially over the winter - this is not the case. I have no idea what FIA is even using those cameras and datum markers for
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SiLo
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Vanja #66 wrote: ↑
10 Apr 2025, 07:53
SiLo wrote: ↑
09 Apr 2025, 17:52
Less AoA across the whole wing maybe? Wonder if a larger blockage but at a lower angle has some kind of benefits for the floor entrance.
It's more AoA actually. Can't have less AoA and taller wing if they are all pushing the total chord to the limit
I don't think they are all pushing max chord, I'm sure Red Bull has significantly less on the inner portions of the wing.
Felipe Baby!

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carisi2k
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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I wonder if the double gooseneck on this aston martin shouldn't be enforced on all the cars to provide some more stiffness to the rear wing and the same for the DRS as well to stop this issue with fluttering that teams are playing with to get that flexing of the rear wing.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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SiLo wrote: ↑
10 Apr 2025, 10:51
I don't think they are all pushing max chord, I'm sure Red Bull has significantly less on the inner portions of the wing.
They used to, but have moved away from that, even last year. All top 4 cars are at or almost at the limit now

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gavingav1
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Cooling comparison Bahrain

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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Vanja #66 wrote: ↑
02 Apr 2025, 11:29
🟧 McLaren have found a way to control these vertical kicks and the downforce they generate across various ride heights. This is the big tricky topic, as massive kick surface can generate massive downforce peak that disappears if the kick stalls locally - while also leading to high-speed bouncing that Ferrari struggled with.

I believe this floor design is part of the reason McLaren exhibits lower Top Speed figures, both with and without DRS, compared to rest of Top 4 cars.
Further on this point, I talked a lot about how so much "energy" is being consumed by the Mclaren and it was not clear where it comes from. Maybe it's lost to the tire cooling solution.
It doesn't turn.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 car comparison thread

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It doesn't turn.