Do you think using hydrogen in f1 would ever be viable? if the rules allowed it of course. And im NOT talking about hydrogen FUEL CELLS, but the same 2400cc v8s running on liquid hydrogen or even the gas form of it. It certainly would help speed up the development of the necessary systems to store it properly. It would also be a better green incentive for f1s image then a couple of green stripes on tyre's or the ill fated KERS.
If the storage was sorted out it would have a few advantages. Hydrogen has a very high energy density, well it is a rocket fuel! so potentially greater power outputs. But the perhaps the greatest advantage is also its greatest obstacle - its temperature - its a liquid at -252.87°C!
Of course that and its low density (its the least dense gas known to man) make it
Do you think using hydrogen in f1 would ever be viable? if the rules allowed it of course. And im NOT talking about hydrogen FUEL CELLS, but the same 2400cc v8s running on liquid hydrogen or even the gas form of it. It certainly would help speed up the development of the necessary systems to store it properly. It would also be a better green incentive for f1s image then a couple of green stripes on tyre's or the ill fated KERS.
If the storage was sorted out it would have a few advantages. Hydrogen has a very high energy density, well it is a rocket fuel! so potentially greater power outputs. But the perhaps the greatest advantage is also its greatest obstacle - its temperature - its a liquid at -252.87°C!
Of course that and its low density (its the least dense gas known to man) make it hard to store. if that was sorted the fuel could be used to cool the engine by being pumped through the radiators before being burned in the engine (just as NASA use it to cool the boosters before burning it) resulting in smaller or even no radiator openings on the car allowing the aerodynamics to be much more efficent.
lastly it could be used to precool the air to the engine making it more dense and increasing power output.
these are just some of my hair brained ideas, feel free to point out where im wrong
your thoughts and comments please
Just a couple of quick comments on the potential use of Hydrogen on a wide scale....
The energy storage density of H2 in either compressed or liquid form is .....the pits.
To compress it to around 6,500 psi takes about 10% of the available energy in the H2, usually as added electrical power. To convert it to a liquid takes about 50% and no amount of technical wizardry is going to change that. When you stroe it in a tank, it is boiling off almost immediately and constantly. The saturation pressure to prevent this is beyond reasonable technology.
The idea of using compressed H2 and using it to cool the inlet or the engine itself, sorry, physics seldom cooperates and this is no different. H2 is unique in having a negative Joule Thompson effect, it actually heats up with pressure reduction. NASA uses the heat of the rocket motor to vaporize the liquid fuel (and O2) to cool the equipment to prevent it melting.
H2 works as a rocket fuel, not because it has a decent energy density (it doesn't) but because it is such a light molecule and they can acvieve such high gas velocities out of the reaction engine (rocket motor).
Trying to burn H2 in an IC engine is dubious at best. We have about 6 IC vehicles running (at any one time) on compressed H2 in our little operation. All are supercharged 350 CI V-8s and to say their performance is sedantary is an understatement. You just can't get enough air and fuel into the engine to produce a decent amount of power. The Ford Busses all have monster, blown V-10s and they are no better than the Rousch supercharged 8s.
Why are we persuing this you ask....a. see previous post and b. the H2 is currently being vented. This is a fuel source that is free for the taking (in this instance) but by the time you compress, clean, store and distribute it, free doesn't fit any more.
For powering fuel cells directly, H2 works great. It just so happens we can't keep an industrially robust fuel cell running for more than weeks, let alone years.
Is there an application for H2 as a fuel, yes, but rest assured it isn't in F1 cars, it isn't in your future and it won't be competitive with almost any other energy source.
Personal motto... "Were it not for the bad.... I would have no luck at all."
, one of the serious contenders for a truly 'green' automotive fuel that was noted in the WTW study was CBG (compressed biogas) - it is a by-product of animal slurry (methane) and, if there is a reasonable supply (>8000 cows or 50000 pigs within 20km) there was a significant energy and GHG benefit...
