2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Stella said the McLaren should've locked out the front row. We shouldn't get delusions that the red bull is fastest now even at Miami. We're still reliant on further upgrades and Barcelona

AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Not going to be easy to win. I'm not delusional.

Mercedes looks harder on their tires this weekend. They struggled more in the sprint race and they also had no pace on the used softs in qualy. That's Red Bull's race and if they do good pit stops, they might finish P3. Mclaren will be in another galaxy (but they can hope that Piastri destroys his tires in traffic).
Last edited by AR3-GP on 04 May 2025, 00:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Sergej
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:17
Stella said the McLaren should've locked out the front row. We shouldn't get delusions that the red bull is fastest now even at Miami. We're still reliant on further upgrades and Barcelona
he's right, Lando and Oscar have the best ideal laps, Lando almost 2 tenths on Max; they failed again to maximize the car.

Cs98
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:17
Stella said the McLaren should've locked out the front row. We shouldn't get delusions that the red bull is fastest now even at Miami. We're still reliant on further upgrades and Barcelona
But there's silver linings too. I'm fairly sure they still ran the old engine which would be a noticeable deficit on a track like this.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:32
organic wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:17
Stella said the McLaren should've locked out the front row. We shouldn't get delusions that the red bull is fastest now even at Miami. We're still reliant on further upgrades and Barcelona
But there's silver linings too. I'm fairly sure they still ran the old engine which would be a noticeable deficit on a track like this.

When Mercedes had their old engines in Jeddah, they were not dropping all this laptime on the straights. So does that mean Honda has huge degradation?

I think there's something more going on. Why would Honda request to use the old engine here when Imola and Monaco are the next rounds?
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euv2
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:05
Guess the new floor works
Yeah, the new floor is providing slightly more downforce, purple mini sectors were a rare sight for the RB21, even in Suzuka MCL were better in the 1st sector but the last 2 weeks they have started to pop back up. With this upgraded floor we probably have the highest downforce in fast corners, but need more confirmation on this.

Cs98
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:33
Cs98 wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:32
organic wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:17
Stella said the McLaren should've locked out the front row. We shouldn't get delusions that the red bull is fastest now even at Miami. We're still reliant on further upgrades and Barcelona
But there's silver linings too. I'm fairly sure they still ran the old engine which would be a noticeable deficit on a track like this.

When Mercedes had their old engines in Jeddah, they were not dropping all this laptime on the straights. So does that mean Honda has huge degradation?

I think there's something more going on. Why would Honda request to use the old engine here when Imola and Monaco are the next rounds?
- Honda has more degradation than Merc. It's not "huge", but it's a factor.

- In both Jeddah and Miami RB has run more wing, hence why there was no advantage in Saudi, and why there was a clear deficit in Miami.

- I think it was always the plan to run the old engine in Miami. It's a sprint weekend which requires running the engine more than normal at the highest power level. It's better to save the "best miles" of the new engine for traditional race weekends instead of burning a bunch of them on less valuable sprint sessions.

- RB can now juggle the new and old engine as they see fit. I suspect in Imola they will run the old engine on the Friday and the new engine on the weekend. In Monaco they will probably run the old unit for the entire weekend. Etc etc.

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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Verstappen pole lap

https://streamable.com/m8kbhh

AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I said it after the banker lap. Max was close to leaving orbit in S1 and there was no more time to find in the 2nd run. 28.2 was the limit. Finally hooked up in T8 though. I wonder if they didn't just crank the front wing for the last run to help in the middle sector, so then he had too much front for T1 because on that run he was able to get to apex for T8 and then do a 33.0 in the middle sector with the slow corners. It which was 3 tenths quicker than anything he did previously in that sector.
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:47
AR3-GP wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:33
Cs98 wrote:
04 May 2025, 00:32

But there's silver linings too. I'm fairly sure they still ran the old engine which would be a noticeable deficit on a track like this.

When Mercedes had their old engines in Jeddah, they were not dropping all this laptime on the straights. So does that mean Honda has huge degradation?

I think there's something more going on. Why would Honda request to use the old engine here when Imola and Monaco are the next rounds?
- Honda has more degradation than Merc. It's not "huge", but it's a factor.

Since when? It used to be the other way around.

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Juzh
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
04 May 2025, 01:05
I said it after the banker lap. Max was close to leaving orbit in S1 and there was no more time to find in the 2nd run. 28.2 was the limit. Finally hooked up in T8 though. I wonder if they didn't just crank the front wing for the last run to help in the middle sector, so then he had too much front for T1 because on that run he was able to get to apex for T8 and then do a 33.0 in the middle sector with the slow corners. It which was 3 tenths quicker than anything he did previously in that sector.
A tenth was lost in T1 on pole lap but as you said it could be a compromise that payed off elsewhere. Oversteer still probably wasnt part of the plan imo.

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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Interesting thoughts from Marko and Max:

-Saving tires for the whole lap was key.
-Setup from sprint was tweaked to make car turn better.
-Miami not the best track to assess the upgrade as it is "special layout"
-lacking straightline speed in 3rd sector.
Max Verstappen drives on pole for the Miami Grand Prix - Despite the sideways in the corner, it is enough for the best starting position thanks to an important learning effect

By now at the latest, it should be clear: Children definitely don't slow down. The new dad Max Verstappen did not show that he had missed all briefings on Thursday and put the Red Bull RB21 on pole for Sunday.

But what tipped the scales? In addition to less than optimal laps by McLaren's competition, according to Helmut Marko, it is Verstappen's tyre management that tipped the scales in his favour.

"Max was highly motivated for qualifying [after the events in the sprint]. Above all, he implemented today what didn't work yesterday: that the tyres maintain constant grip over the entire lap," he says on Servus TV and Sky.

"In qualifying for the sprint, he went too hard and then he had no more grip. He lost two to three tenths. Today he divided it in such a way that the tyres still worked optimally in the last two corners." Although McLaren was slightly stronger in the last sector, Verstappen put in a strong first sector in particular, although his lap was not perfect.



Braking turn 1, everything looks good. Suddenly, however, the rear breaks out. It's not so much the dreaded "snap oversteer" as a slow breakout of the rear axle. Verstappen skillfully opens the steering, which means that the corner radius no longer quite fits. Not a complete failure in the curve, but not optimal either.

"Ahhh man, it just broke out!" was Verstappen's first reaction after the fast lap. He probably no longer believed in poles. It was only when he was on the long straight on the final lap that the news came that it was enough. Verstappen can't believe it at first. "That is... Pole?" Gianpiero Lambiase has to confirm it to him once again. Verstappen: "Unbelievable!"

The slide could be the result of a change in the car set-up that Red Bull introduced with the underbody update. The aim was to improve the "car rotation", i.e. to put it in plain German: that the butt gets around the bend better. It may have been a bit too much of a good thing for Turn 1, but it worked all the better for the rest of the lap.

"I changed the set-up a bit compared to the sprint, so the car turns a little better," Verstappen explains. "But what we actually want to achieve is a better balance. However, this track is not the best to say if you have really improved the car - it is just special in the layout."




In qualifying, there were no more set-up changes. "There's not much you can do between sessions anyway - at most you can adjust the front wing a bit," Marko interjects. "But the car suited him well from the start. And as I said, the decisive factor today was the tyre management. He really did an excellent job of implementing that throughout qualifying and made the difference."

In the end, he drove another 0.284 seconds faster than in the efirst attempt. Where did that come from? "A bit in turns 7 and 8, then a bit in the second sector. And maybe a little bit in the last corner. So yes, little things everywhere. Apart from the moment in turn 1, I felt comfortable on the entire lap."

He also confirms what Helmut Marko has already said: "It was really difficult to get the tyres into the right window over a whole lap. " That's exactly what made the difference today," says Verstappen. "You had to be careful not to drive too aggressively. Because as soon as you demand too much, you simply lose grip at the end of the lap - and that costs a lot of time."

At the same time, the four-time world champion emphasizes that the qualifying result is not a free pass for Sunday. "We are still struggling with a few limitations. If I could choose, I'd like to have more top speed - because we're missing a few km/h in the third sector."

For Sunday, the cards could be reshuffled again. "According to our weather forecast, it is supposed to rain. But we'll let that come to us," says Marko. And as is well known, wet conditions are not necessarily something Max Verstappen has to fear.
https://www.motorsport-total.com/forum/ ... c#p1716447
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f1isgood
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I am only concerned about the start tomorrow. So far I think the team (not Max) has failed to optimize at China (potential podium if not too conservative first stint), Jeddah (poor start a recurring theme so far - already at China and Bahrain) and today in the sprint. Around 15 points behind than the theoretical optimum. Just need a clear getaway into Turn 1- recall now drivers on the inside can push the guy outside regardless of where the outside guy is nowadays.

Another weekend where McLaren don't maximize, Max again showing how he's probably the best driver to maybe ever drive in F1. Some people will say car fixed but is the car really fixed? Theoretically the car is still a solid couple of tenths behind the McLaren's. Need that Spain TD to actually have a tangible impact on McLaren and not Red Bull, and also need that Imola upgrade to push the team up by a tenth. If that's the gap being closed, there's a championship that can be won with ease by Max, assuming the pitcrew don't keep --- it up.

Red Bull seem to have gained the edge on high-speed -- the strengths of this RB20 car might be back, although we are running a larger wing.

What else to say? VERGOD as someone else said it. Really, what a magical driver. No one probably ever had his consistency and his consistent peak in F1.
Call a spade, a spade.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Image

Mclaren very slow with DRS

Image
Last edited by AR3-GP on 04 May 2025, 02:11, edited 1 time in total.
It doesn't turn.

f1isgood
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Is it clear why the McLaren's gain so much in the early parts of the straight? It seems Red Bull have a drag advantage with DRS on at the end but we lose so much before.
Call a spade, a spade.