2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Quantum]

The entire grid bar one team must be "siding" with McLaren if Toto is being labelled as such....
Far simpler to use the obvious, the outlier is the one team sliding into an abyss of their own making.

[Lasssept]

@F1GuyDan

[SB15]

I wouldn`t say "hasn`t said a single word"

Toto Wolff has said.



And

I also said “or complained at all” kinda makes you become suspicious that Mercedes are this supportive, buddy-buddying, about McLaren’s advantage and George’s pessimism about the McLaren’s has shifted “slightly” recently.

I don’t know the details, my brain is just a small, minuscule, pieces of thoughts.

But something is telling me Mercedes has been also developing this technology which I wouldn’t be shocked they started right after pre-season testing or the first 2 races.

I have been thinking about it too. Check this out: https://x.com/reel_sonodas/status/19211 ... 04193?s=46

Fascinating!

The difference between Toto and christian, instead of doing everything to tell the FIA to investigate a certain car, maybe it’s best to give yourself less headaches and focus on what you can implement that gives yourself an advantage.

[Alexf1]

2021 and 2022 say hello: Toto was all over the media about the supposed increase in HP of the 2nd Honda PU, publically threatening to take the FIA to International court of appeal about Red Bulls bending rear wing and pressured the FIA to stop Red Bulls fast pitstops. In 2022 he didn't want to change his cars rear suspension to stop it from porpoising and bounching but change the regulations. All these things he played very much via the media

[Rikhart]

2021 and 2022 say hello: Toto was all over the media about the supposed increase in HP of the 2nd Honda PU, publically threatening to take the FIA to International court of appeal about Red Bulls bending rear wing and pressured the FIA to stop Red Bulls fast pitstops. In 2022 he didn't want to change his cars rear suspension to stop it from porpoising and bounching but change the regulations. All these things he played very much via the media

People have 5 minute memory, like flies

[venkyhere]

Anyone who thinks Toto is an angel compared to Horner , is from the snowflake DTS generation.
They are all piranhas. It's a piranha club. There are no angles. Only difference is, some of them choose to 'display' the backstabbing they do, while others don't. That's how it is. It's been the nature of the sport for decades. Nothing new.

[Alexf1]

If Merc thinks that McLaren is out of reach anyway but their own developments on the rear tyre cooling could very well be better than Red Bulls then sure you back McLaren to keep what they have and make sure you can introduce your own version asap and jump Red Bull as 2nd fastest car. TPs job to think like that and there's nothing wrong with that. Its up to the FIA what goes and what doesn't

[Cs98]

If Merc thinks that McLaren is out of reach anyway but their own developments on the rear tyre cooling could very well be better than Red Bulls then sure you back McLaren to keep what they have and make sure you can introduce your own version asap and jump Red Bull as 2nd fastest car. TPs job to think like that and there's nothing wrong with that. Its up to the FIA what goes and what doesn't

There's a reason Toto is so different now compared to the militant political operator we saw only a few years ago, who seemingly could leverage targeted TDs out of thin air. First, as you allude to, he understands that he can't win in this regulation cycle anymore. They've essentially given up on 2025. Secondly, given that Merc can't win, he prefers that McLaren win because they have his engines, so it's the second best option for the Merc brand. There's just no strong incentive to lobby against McLaren right now.

[Quantum]

False equivalence here is quite something.

Finger pointing is what every TP does at some point. Nobody here is saying they don't.
But to liken what's going on now to what Toto and others pushed for over 8 years, man thats a streeeeeeetch

[SB15]

If Merc thinks that McLaren is out of reach anyway but their own developments on the rear tyre cooling could very well be better than Red Bulls then sure you back McLaren to keep what they have and make sure you can introduce your own version asap and jump Red Bull as 2nd fastest car. TPs job to think like that and there's nothing wrong with that. Its up to the FIA what goes and what doesn't

There's a reason Toto is so different now compared to the militant political operator we saw only a few years ago, who seemingly could leverage targeted TDs out of thin air. First, as you allude to, he understands that he can't win in this regulation cycle anymore. They've essentially given up on 2025. Secondly, given that Merc can't win, he prefers that McLaren win because they have his engines, so it's the second best option for the Merc brand. There's just no strong incentive to lobby against McLaren right now.

For everyone: Yes I indeed know what Toto has done from 2013-2022. But at least it wasn’t as bad like Redbull trying everything in their power through those 7-8 years to limit Mercs advantage and now the last 2 years with McLaren.

Furthermore, Toto has not given up on the 2025, if that was the case they would’ve immediately set their sights on 2026 right after pre-season testing.

And just because you use the same engine doesn’t mean you at least want YOUR team to be there competing from race to race. He wouldn’t be this adamant to defend the McLarens if his team wasn’t also developing the same technology through the season.

[OverheatedTurbo]

Mercedes is testing the W16 along with the W11 at Paul Ricard. I wonder what they’re testing
https://x.com/mercedesamgpcf1/status/19 ... 92224?s=46

[Lasssept]

[SB15]

Mercedes is testing the W16 along with the W11 at Paul Ricard. I wonder what they’re testing
https://x.com/mercedesamgpcf1/status/19 ... 92224?s=46

Not sure, but I wouldn't doubt if Merc is more likely seeing how The W16 handles and testing how the car manages its temperature within the brake drum that they are developing vs the W11 and see what other ideas they can take from it.

Which too me it is extremely smart because learning from the best you got is never a bad idea. Plus The W11 also did have insane low tyre degradation and its downforce was mega. I'm very surprised no other top team is doing this.

[Alexf1]

That would have to mean they already used the drum cooling system in a race. Can't test unraced parts on the car

[CjC]

That would have to mean they already used the drum cooling system in a race. Can't test unraced parts on the car

I did wonder.
Do the parts have to actually compete in a race or if a part is tested in a practise session can it then be tested on an old car?