2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[euv2]

I think they're running detuned in sprints and Fridays so that engine penalties are not necessary with the notion that a title fight will be tight this year. Perhaps last year at the beginning of '24 they didn't anticipate the competitive landscape changing so much through the year

Max got screwed over by the new engine he took in Canada failing in its first race weekend. So, he was forced into taking a new PU.

As you said, they have taken steps to reduce wear from the very beginning of this season.
They also can't afford to take engine penalties anymore, the MERC PU is very reliable and durable, taking a penalty in this tight field with difficulties overtaking is a huge blow to WDC hopes.

[Juzh]

But things flipped a bit in Imola where the RB21 was generally a much closer match in the medium speed and lost massively in the high-speed turn 9.

That's because RB21 ran a lower rear wing (probably beam wing as well) than the MCL39 in Imola. At a high speed corner when the car needs all the 'load' from all aero surfaces, it suffered, so had to be driven slightly slower slower. However, the lower drag helped in the main straight (+8 kph w.r.t MCL39). I think it was a cleverly chosen tradeoff.

This advantage once again only manifested in qualifying with drs open. In the race with DRS closed both cars were nearly equal in Imola. I think mclaren is just not on RB's level in terms of DRS efficiency (still). When red bull run "lower" downforce they're equal with mclaren on straights, but as soon as they try to raise it (miami) they drop like a stone.

I think they're running detuned in sprints and Fridays so that engine penalties are not necessary with the notion that a title fight will be tight this year. Perhaps last year at the beginning of '24 they didn't anticipate the competitive landscape changing so much through the year

Max got screwed over by the new engine he took in Canada failing in its first race weekend. So, he was forced into taking a new PU.

Yeah, that was diabolical.

[AR3-GP]

Red Bull was not supposed to use that barn door in Miami. That was just a vain attempt to keep the rear tire temps under control. It left them with nothing in the end. Slow on straights and not looking after the tire temps either.

Also, Mclaren is still running their flexi-wings. If Mercedes is any measure, Mclaren will lose some top speed in race trim after Spain (or have to run less downforce to reach the same in-race top speeds).

[Paa]

Red Bull was not supposed to use that barn door in Miami. That was just a vain attempt to keep the rear tire temps under control. It left them with nothing in the end. Slow on straights and not looking after the tire temps either.

Also, Mclaren is still running their flexi-wings. If Mercedes is any measure, Mclaren will lose some top speed in race trim after Spain (or have to run less downforce to reach the same in-race top speeds).

I was thinking the same, but I'm not so sure anymore. It is not conclusive if Mercedes lost speed due to more rigid wings or the new skid block TD or both? (if lost speed at all)

[AR3-GP]

I was thinking the same, but I'm not so sure anymore. It is not conclusive if Mercedes lost speed due to more rigid wings or the new skid block TD or both? (if lost speed at all)

I suppose there can be other explanations for Mercedes, but for Mclaren, Stella suggested as much:

“In our case, we want to shed a little bit of drag and a little bit of load, but as long as you do it within the regulations, and that’s the case, then it’s more of a technical point rather than a legality point, if that makes sense.

“So I’m really wondering like, what kind of news are we discussing here?”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-f ... n-red-bull

So there will be some loss. They wouldn't have the wing otherwise.

[Paa]

I also expect McLaren (among others) to suffer some loss.
All I'm saying is that the magnitude of that loss is impossible to judge based on Merc's pace in Imola.

[AR3-GP]

I compared onboard race laps of the RB20 and the RB21 in Imola. The RB20 makes the RB21 look like a Mclaren . Last year's car had so many balance issues that it's unbelievable that someone could win this race in that car. There was entry instability. Then there was entry understeer. Mid corner understeer. Corner exit understeer. A 30 lap stint on C5 would have been impossible. RB20 was exposed as a dog of a car.

If we consider how poor the balance of the last year's car was in Imola and what they still managed in the rest of 2024....then I feel that Red Bull should be buzzing with optimism about their chances now. The struggles in Imola last year were the foundation for their struggles in the later races. So it can only be a good sign that the RB21 worked so well in Imola.

[Sergej]

I compared onboard race laps of the RB20 and the RB21 in Imola. The RB20 makes the RB21 look like a Mclaren . Last year's car had so many balance issues that it's unbelievable that someone could win this race in that car. There was entry instability. Then there was entry understeer. Mid corner understeer. Corner exit understeer. A 30 lap stint on C5 would have been impossible. RB20 was exposed as a dog of a car.

If we consider how poor the balance of the last year's car was in Imola and what they still managed in the rest of 2024....then I feel that Red Bull should be buzzing with optimism about their chances now. The struggles in Imola last year were the foundation for their struggles in the later races. So it can only be a good sign that the RB21 worked so well in Imola.

This is true, but:
- McLaren is stronger than last year as well
- you don't have a 60 point vantage but a 20 point deficit

[f1isgood]

I compared onboard race laps of the RB20 and the RB21 in Imola. The RB20 makes the RB21 look like a Mclaren . Last year's car had so many balance issues that it's unbelievable that someone could win this race in that car. There was entry instability. Then there was entry understeer. Mid corner understeer. Corner exit understeer. A 30 lap stint on C5 would have been impossible. RB20 was exposed as a dog of a car.

If we consider how poor the balance of the last year's car was in Imola and what they still managed in the rest of 2024....then I feel that Red Bull should be buzzing with optimism about their chances now. The struggles in Imola last year were the foundation for their struggles in the later races. So it can only be a good sign that the RB21 worked so well in Imola.

Some onboards comparisons from anybody would be a godsend. Also, last year's car struggled on the harder tires (which was C3) versus the C4 this year. It could skew comparisons a little although admittedly this year's car is much better on the harder tires everywhere so far except for Bahrain.

[Sergej]

Matteo Bobbi (italian commentator) said he spoke with Lambiase in Imola, and Gianpiero told him that they are doing an intensive work on the rear corner, which will be concluded in one month; he also said that McLaren have found something in this zone, but nothing to do with that PCM stuff; finally he said that they acknowledge they are weak on the flexi stuff side, and they expect to be less impacted than others by Spain TD.

[CjC]

I think this thread has run its course and any further engagement is not going to be productive, so I'll stop here.

Correct. This after all, this all stemmed from my appreciation of a post that helped further expand my understanding of the competitive landscape.

Back to the asphalt. Have you previously shared your views on which type suit Red Bull anywhere?

[AR3-GP]

This is true, but:
- McLaren is stronger than last year as well
- you don't have a 60 point vantage but a 20 point deficit

Mclaren is stronger than last year, but my sense is that Imola from last year foreshadowed how the rest of 2024 would go (struggling with curbs, bumps, awful balance, endless front wing clicks, no pace at end of race, etc etc). So if Imola 2024 caused great concern, then Imola 2025 should offer a much more positive outlook relative to that.

[AR3-GP]

Some onboards comparisons from anybody would be a godsend. Also, last year's car struggled on the harder tires (which was C3) versus the C4 this year. It could skew comparisons a little although admittedly this year's car is much better on the harder tires everywhere so far except for Bahrain.

Tires were softer this year, but last year the car balance was very bad in the first stint on the C4, even as the gap was increasing. Verstappen was going out of track limits, lots of understeer, asking for front wing clicks, and generally very frustrated to drive that car. The problems only got much worse on the C3 at the end. This year the C4 was the hard tire . It seemed worlds apart. I could make some gifs later. RB20 had understeer everywhere. Into tamburello, into tosa, into acqua minerale, rivazza. It was disgusting.

[Wouter]

Only one person is missing just as he was at the benefit football match this afternoon.

[SB15]

https://imgur.com/ZJ4T81m.jpg





https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GrfTxwMWQAA ... name=small

Only one person is missing just as he was at the benefit football match this afternoon.

I won't lie, I would've done the same. Got to lock-in before a weekend where Quali is important