2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[f1isgood]

Red Bull technical director Pierre Waché had an explanation for why the heat didn't play into McLaren's hands on Sunday. "On certain types of asphalt with certain tire compounds, the tire wear mechanism changes in our favor in hot weather." The Frenchman declined to elaborate on the tire 101. "That would give too much away."

Better balance enlarges setup window. Red Bull has improved its much-maligned RB21 with its two-piece upgrade. The new underbody, which was already installed in Miami, delivers more stable downforce. The modified cooling intake optimizes the airflow around the sidepods, the modified rear wishbone fairings to the diffuser, and the new rear brake vents allow for better control of tire temperatures. "But it will take time until this works as well as it does at McLaren," fears Sporting Director Helmut Marko.

The impact of recent developments was felt by the drivers. The Red Bull no longer changed its balance between turn-in and the apex. The understeer mid-corner disappeared, but the oversteer on the exit remained. But Verstappen can live with that. "For the first time in a long time, Max hasn't complained," Marko said with a sigh of relief.

The champion praised: "The car was easier to control. This made it easier to manage the tires." Team principal Christian Horner explained that the improvements to the car expanded the setup window. Friday and Saturday were like night and day. This time, it was possible to find a good car setup and not just a half-baked compromise.

The decisive factor will be whether Imola, like Suzuka, was just a snapshot in time where the car benefited from favorable conditions or whether it will provide a better platform in the long term. Technical director Waché remains tight-lipped: "Am I confident now? I don't have an answer to that. I was after Suzuka, and then we were beaten by McLaren three times in a row."

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... e_vignette

This is one of the more sensible articles on here regarding the result.
Interesting Waché admitted that Red bull have an advantage over McLaren when it comes to tyre life on certain asphalts in hot conditions. Something that has never been suggested before and was obviously present before Imola, Imola just confirmed his suspicions.

This is the stuff we should be reading not the sensationalist journos who use social media for rage bait

Where is the comparison to McLaren coming from? Clearly not Waché unless there's some bits I am missing.

[CjC]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... e_vignette

This is one of the more sensible articles on here regarding the result.
Interesting Waché admitted that Red bull have an advantage over McLaren when it comes to tyre life on certain asphalts in hot conditions. Something that has never been suggested before and was obviously present before Imola, Imola just confirmed his suspicions.

This is the stuff we should be reading not the sensationalist journos who use social media for rage bait

Where is the comparison to McLaren coming from? Clearly not Waché unless there's some bits I am missing.

I’ve assumed he was asked the question in relation to Mclaren.
This is the sentence before the sentence in bold
‘Red Bull technical director Pierre Waché had an explanation for why the heat didn't play into McLaren's hands on Sunday.’

McLaren are mentioned and Marko mentions McLaren later on.

Come on, let’s not be silly, Red Bull aren’t measuring their relative tyre life to the Saubers. McLaren and Red Bull are direct competitors

[f1isgood]

This is one of the more sensible articles on here regarding the result.
Interesting Waché admitted that Red bull have an advantage over McLaren when it comes to tyre life on certain asphalts in hot conditions. Something that has never been suggested before and was obviously present before Imola, Imola just confirmed his suspicions.

This is the stuff we should be reading not the sensationalist journos who use social media for rage bait

Where is the comparison to McLaren coming from? Clearly not Waché unless there's some bits I am missing.

I’ve assumed he was asked the question in relation to Mclaren.
This is the sentence before the sentence in bold
‘Red Bull technical director Pierre Waché had an explanation for why the heat didn't play into McLaren's hands on Sunday.’

McLaren are mentioned and Marko mentions McLaren later on.

Come on, let’s not be silly, Red Bull aren’t measuring their relative tyre life to the Saubers. McLaren and Red Bull are direct competitors

My interpretation well before your post was that certain Asphalt's suit Red Bull.

That says nothing about if Red Bull becomes better than McLaren or to use your own words "have an advantage".

You are funny though. You tell me to not be silly yet happily extrapolate something that was never said.

[ispano6]

Has anyone seen any info on whether he had the full set of new bits before quali, and what he had for the race? I haven't seen anything.

He had the full package from FP-Quali. The race he had to use the old spec long-nose front wing. I believe he's damaged two already from Jeddah and Imola. He had the new sidepods during the race still.

Wonder how much of the new package Yuki will have available at Monaco, given he, uh, modified quite a lot of it last Saturday.

If he has to use the old nose, it might actually be better with more downforce. It's noticeably narrower and less bulbous and may require to be balanced with either a higher downforce rear wing/double chord beam wing and/or softer rear set up. Imola might have been a good data gathering session to understand if reverting to the higher downforce front wing could be used as a set up option in future races. He did damage the right wing endplate strake with the clash with Sainz, so that will need to be patched up.

I'm curious if RedBull's Spain upgrade will have a Mclaren/Mercedes-esque front suspension fairing flick and Ferrari's mini-wing elements that extend from the gearbox casing alongside the base of the rear wing stand. Those appear to be efficient gains that could provide a modest effect for the cost.

[CjC]

Where is the comparison to McLaren coming from? Clearly not Waché unless there's some bits I am missing.

I’ve assumed he was asked the question in relation to Mclaren.
This is the sentence before the sentence in bold
‘Red Bull technical director Pierre Waché had an explanation for why the heat didn't play into McLaren's hands on Sunday.’

McLaren are mentioned and Marko mentions McLaren later on.

Come on, let’s not be silly, Red Bull aren’t measuring their relative tyre life to the Saubers. McLaren and Red Bull are direct competitors

My interpretation well before your post was that certain Asphalt's suit Red Bull.

That says nothing about if Red Bull becomes better than McLaren or to use your own words "have an advantage".

You are funny though. You tell me to not be silly yet happily extrapolate something that was never said.

Max literally won the race though, how is that not having an advantage?

All I ever do is try to expand my knowledge of the current state of play in the sport, more so when it concerns Mclaren. I wasn’t aware of what Wache said about certain tarmacs suiting Red Bull and after it was said/ posted in the wake of a rather commanding win for Max I’ve assumed (be cause I would be) he’s happy to beat the McLarens and is enjoying the moment- rightly so.

Kudos if you spotted that different asphalt suits the Red Bull before, now Wache has confirmed your suspicions surely you feel vindicated? I hope no one threw an ‘extrapolate’ at you.

I have a theory that green tracks suit the Mclaren. If that’s extrapolating, the extrapolate me!

However, you won’t change my mind about the competitive nature of Red Bull. They aren’t measuring themselves against the guys at the back of the pack when they are talking to the media. Any comment or interview discussing the competitive picture/ conditions happening to suit the Red Bull from Max, Horner, Marko or Wache are with the mindset to win. They are a winning team and want to continue to be but it’s McLaren who sit a top of the 2 championships so McLaren are the target. Horner has admitted the sole goal for Red Bull this season is to win the WDC and its McLaren who are in their way of that objective.
So I’ll stand by what I said, Wache saying that certain asphalts suit Red Bull means the is hopeful of having an advantage over the entire field including McLaren.
If you still think that’s foolish of me- I don’t give a damn.

[organic]

Monaco should be exciting. Max said they aren't expecting it to be a good weekend for red bull but he's been wrong before! Regardless I expect McLaren to be very strong there going by Miami sector 2 slow speed section. Maybe this time with better kerb riding and the recent balance improvements, Max could have the confidence in the car to do something special though

[euv2]

On another note, I am not sure where there is a new narrative that Red Bull should be doing well in Imola is coming from. I honestly don't see the similarity between {Jeddah, Suzuka} and Imola lol.

Imola has like one high speed corner (220+), lots of medium speed (100 - 200) and Red Bull was losing plenty of time there to the McLaren's before this race. And so far from all we have seen, Red Bull can match the McLaren's in high speed, but nowhere else. It's not like McLaren had a disadvantage in high speed.

Given McLaren's performance last year at this same track where they were clearly quicker than Red Bull, I am very much inclined to believe that the upgrades actually made meaningful progress, and not that Red Bull was always going to do well around this track.

Yeah, I found that very odd too. MCL has had the measure of Red bull in all medium speed corners this season by a good margin, MCL was faster even in the Esses at Suzuka but RB21 was faster in Miami high speed. The most consistent part between the 2 cars has actually been the low speed performance, I think. The Red bull generally also has a small straight line speed advantage.

But things flipped a bit in Imola where the RB21 was generally a much closer match in the medium speed and lost massively in the high-speed turn 9. Which could make sense with the latest string of upgrades improving mid corner balance but not really increasing the load.

[venkyhere]

But things flipped a bit in Imola where the RB21 was generally a much closer match in the medium speed and lost massively in the high-speed turn 9.

That's because RB21 ran a lower rear wing (probably beam wing as well) than the MCL39 in Imola. At a high speed corner when the car needs all the 'load' from all aero surfaces, it suffered, so had to be driven slightly slower slower. However, the lower drag helped in the main straight (+8 kph w.r.t MCL39). I think it was a cleverly chosen tradeoff.

[Sergej]

Autoracer guy Donadoni said that within 1 month another upgrade around the rear corner will be introduced.

[AR3-GP]

That would be around Canada/Austria then. More control of the rear tire temperatures would benefit on those circuits.

[f1isgood]

But things flipped a bit in Imola where the RB21 was generally a much closer match in the medium speed and lost massively in the high-speed turn 9.

That's because RB21 ran a lower rear wing (probably beam wing as well) than the MCL39 in Imola. At a high speed corner when the car needs all the 'load' from all aero surfaces, it suffered, so had to be driven slightly slower slower. However, the lower drag helped in the main straight (+8 kph w.r.t MCL39). I think it was a cleverly chosen tradeoff.

How does that help with medium speed performance though? The RB21 behaved very differently to what we know. For what it's worth, I don't know what changed but something fairly significant. Maybe as others have pointed out, better balance maybe allows Max to get the potential of the car more.

[f1isgood]

I’ve assumed he was asked the question in relation to Mclaren.
This is the sentence before the sentence in bold
‘Red Bull technical director Pierre Waché had an explanation for why the heat didn't play into McLaren's hands on Sunday.’

McLaren are mentioned and Marko mentions McLaren later on.

Come on, let’s not be silly, Red Bull aren’t measuring their relative tyre life to the Saubers. McLaren and Red Bull are direct competitors

My interpretation well before your post was that certain Asphalt's suit Red Bull.

That says nothing about if Red Bull becomes better than McLaren or to use your own words "have an advantage".

You are funny though. You tell me to not be silly yet happily extrapolate something that was never said.

Max literally won the race though, how is that not having an advantage?

All I ever do is try to expand my knowledge of the current state of play in the sport, more so when it concerns Mclaren. I wasn’t aware of what Wache said about certain tarmacs suiting Red Bull and after it was said/ posted in the wake of a rather commanding win for Max I’ve assumed (be cause I would be) he’s happy to beat the McLarens and is enjoying the moment- rightly so.

Kudos if you spotted that different asphalt suits the Red Bull before, now Wache has confirmed your suspicions surely you feel vindicated? I hope no one threw an ‘extrapolate’ at you.

I have a theory that green tracks suit the Mclaren. If that’s extrapolating, the extrapolate me!

However, you won’t change my mind about the competitive nature of Red Bull. They aren’t measuring themselves against the guys at the back of the pack when they are talking to the media. Any comment or interview discussing the competitive picture/ conditions happening to suit the Red Bull from Max, Horner, Marko or Wache are with the mindset to win. They are a winning team and want to continue to be but it’s McLaren who sit a top of the 2 championships so McLaren are the target. Horner has admitted the sole goal for Red Bull this season is to win the WDC and its McLaren who are in their way of that objective.
So I’ll stand by what I said, Wache saying that certain asphalts suit Red Bull means the is hopeful of having an advantage over the entire field including McLaren.
If you still think that’s foolish of me- I don’t give a damn.

Let's be grounded in facts and what we know so far. You called me silly while I responded to you being funny, not foolish.

Three bolded points.

1. Wins don't mean an advantage. Red Bull had an advantage at only Imola on performance alone so far. Even then from everything seen so far, that's marginal. McLaren as a team failed to win with the best car last year and can clearly only execute races when the car is dominant. This is a recurring theme. That is what gave Red Bull the advantage at Suzuka and at Jeddah -- failure of McLaren drivers to put a good lap together when it mattered.

2. Some asphalts suiting Red Bull doesn't imply it already makes them the best car. That is extrapolation without evidence at best. Does Red Bull car become more competitive than usual? Yes. Does that mean it is the car-to-have? Not necessarily. In none of the races before Imola could there be a case that the best car was Red Bull from the data alone. At Imola, it would definitely be, but even then it is marginal if we are being honest. It does help that a marginal advantage is enough for some teams to win comfortably whole it's not the same for others.

3. That is once again extrapolation and I will leave it there.

I think this thread has run its course and any further engagement is not going to be productive, so I'll stop here.

[kediown]

Is it possible to get the 5th ICE on Monaco FP3 with using 3rd and 4th ICE on FP1 and FP2? Maybe just take the early engine penalty instead of taking it at Belgium which in theory can be a RB win. Start last on Monaco with 2 mandatory pits to cook something interesting or I'm reaching

[f1isgood]

I don't think they'll take a grid penalty at Belgium this year. Last year I thought it was the right place to take it but in hindsight we left a win on the table.

I expect somewhere where there's more chance of SC et cetera where the car is also not very strong.

[organic]

I think they're running detuned in sprints and Fridays so that engine penalties are not necessary with the notion that a title fight will be tight this year. Perhaps last year at the beginning of '24 they didn't anticipate the competitive landscape changing so much through the year