2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[basti313]

It's crazy that this myth that was debunked by Niki himself(I can provide you with a link to his interview if you wish), is still around. Niki did nothing significant to lure Ham. Ross Brawn did all that,

Thank you. I did not know this interview. But still just replaces the names for the story of today...and confirms it how they work.

But I think the advantage works team has today is much smaller and that it is quite possible that Mercedes works team does not have any real "insider" advantage to McLaren customer team.

This is something I still doubt. In 2021 when Merc changed the intercooler placing all customer teams dropped in performance (coincidence?). Same goes with 22, Merc was bad but all customers worse. McLaren became competitive with a mid season update two years after the bigger change in the cooling layout with incremental changes at the season start. For me a lot to be "not related".

The comparison for Ferrari is more difficult as the customers are always at the rear of the pack. But still...2021 they changed the cooling layout as well. Both customer teams dead last.

So I doubt, there is no benefit to be a works team today.

[Quantum]

but If I was a Mercedes fan, I would not be happy to find out Max ultimately decided against the move, because that would mean one and only thing - Mercedes aren't gonna be as competitive in 2026 as many believe.

Whuttt

I'd be over the moon if Max decided to stay at Red Bull. As a Merc fan.
It also doesnt "only mean one thing" if he doesn't go. That's just asserting bias to favour your point.
Nobody knows how next year will play out, painting a contract decision as solely hinge dependant on a variable is assuming Max is a fortune teller/Nostradamus. He's neither the Messiah nor Nostradamus.

[wiktor977]

Next year the Redbull be be nowhere with the new engines. Almost like Honda at the start of the hybrid era all over again.

Max knows this and will want out.

Ferrari and McLaren don’t have a spot. This leaves Mercedes. It’s pretty much a done deal imo as it’s a win/win situation for them both.

The truth is that Mercedes doesn't need Max, it looks like Max needs Mercedes. With a good car and engine Mercedes can win WC with current drivers, we all know that.

It's a fair point.

But to create the highest chance of winning, we can probably all agree that it would be Max in the car, not George.

What guarantee do you have that Max will be the same driver as he is in RB? We all know that he likes the style of the car that currently only RB has, and had it for a long time. I don't want to compare both but do you remember Daniel, when he left RB he wasn't the same driver because Renault and McLaren were so much different than RB.

[Matt2725]

Next year the Redbull be be nowhere with the new engines. Almost like Honda at the start of the hybrid era all over again.

Max knows this and will want out.

Ferrari and McLaren don’t have a spot. This leaves Mercedes. It’s pretty much a done deal imo as it’s a win/win situation for them both.

The truth is that Mercedes doesn't need Max, it looks like Max needs Mercedes. With a good car and engine Mercedes can win WC with current drivers, we all know that.

It's a fair point.

But to create the highest chance of winning, we can probably all agree that it would be Max in the car, not George.

Not really. He's hardly setting the world on fire currently. George routinely looks as quick if not quicker.

The RBR isn't a bad car, it's just been developed one way because one driver had the team built around him (something he won't get at Mercedes).

Point is, there's nothing concrete despite a few wet dreams that he's even going to sign or even get the chance to sign/turn them down. Not to mention there's every chance he's not so quick in a Mercedes that isn't developed towards a driving style he likes.
Assuming Kimi does stay, they're not going to shaft him by giving into Max's demands on car development.

Also...

Helmut Marko today in Der Kleine Zeitung.

Helmut Marko has clearly refuted the reports from Italy: "He hasn't signed and can't," said the Graz native regarding the latest rumours. As Marko emphasized several times in Spielberg, the Dutch superstar has a contract until 2028. Logically, this contract, as usual, includes an exit clause in the event of a lack of sporting success. However, at the moment, the sporting conditions for an early termination of the contract are far from being met.

Therefore, Marko is also confused by the recurring topic. "It's just getting annoying. The same questions keep coming up, and we keep giving the same answers, because the situation hasn't changed." The world champion himself, logically, remains silent when asked about his future plans. In Spielberg, all he could say was "no comment."

[basti313]

Interestingly Brundle said he knows George is speaking to Aston and RedBull. I still do not see any move at Aston, so...
The comment of Marko for the exit clause is useless...if there is any performance clause, it will trigger. If Max now wants to go to Merc, they will sign it off because they have no option with Yuki not winning anythign.

[Matt2725]

Interestingly Brundle said he knows George is speaking to Aston and RedBull. I still do not see any move at Aston, so...
The comment of Marko for the exit clause is useless...if there is any performance clause, it will trigger. If Max now wants to go to Merc, they will sign it off because they have no option with Yuki not winning anythign.

Well Marko is claiming they are no where near any performance clauses being triggered and he appears quite emphatic that Max "can't sign" anywhere else.
Max is quite loyal to Marko so I don't expect him to be too in the dark. He's unlikely to be so on the nose with it if he wasn't sure. You'd only call such a comment useless if it went against what you wanted, so message loud and clear. RBR will not give up Max without a fight and they'll hold him to every bit of his contract.

[Quantum]

This is something I still doubt. In 2021 when Merc changed the intercooler placing all customer teams dropped in performance (coincidence?). Same goes with 22, Merc was bad but all customers worse. McLaren became competitive with a mid season update two years after the bigger change in the cooling layout with incremental changes at the season start. For me a lot to be "not related".

The comparison for Ferrari is more difficult as the customers are always at the rear of the pack. But still...2021 they changed the cooling layout as well. Both customer teams dead last.

So I doubt, there is no benefit to be a works team today.

Customers optimise their own cooling requirements using identical hardware to Mercedes(as per the rules). They get the data ahead of time in the feedback loop with Brackley.
Your statement that all customer teams in 2021 dropped in performance due to the intercooler placing, got a source for that or is it a wild guess?

[basti313]

Well Marko is claiming they are no where near any performance clauses being triggered and he appears quite emphatic that Max "can't sign" anywhere else.

Well, but what are realistic performance clauses? Is there any reason one would put anything else but "top 3" in there?
Top 3 in constructors is not there. Top 3 in drivers does not make sense, otherwise he could say "sign here if you want me to be top3". I am assuming it is all about end of year performance clause...which is not near...Marko is correct

RBR will not give up Max without a fight and they'll hold him to every bit of his contract.

True. He is the asset. For Merc and RB.

Customers optimise their own cooling requirements using identical hardware to Mercedes(as per the rules). They get the data ahead of time in the feedback loop with Brackley.

Never worked since 2014. Not even with McLaren and Honda it worked...or RedBull and Renault. It only worked with works teams in the first years.

Your statement that all customer teams in 2021 dropped in performance due to the intercooler placing, got a source for that or is it a wild guess?

It is not a statement, it is a correlation.

[FittingMechanics]

Helmut Marko today in Der Kleine Zeitung.

Helmut Marko has clearly refuted the reports from Italy: "He hasn't signed and can't," said the Graz native regarding the latest rumours. As Marko emphasized several times in Spielberg, the Dutch superstar has a contract until 2028. Logically, this contract, as usual, includes an exit clause in the event of a lack of sporting success. However, at the moment, the sporting conditions for an early termination of the contract are far from being met.

Therefore, Marko is also confused by the recurring topic. "It's just getting annoying. The same questions keep coming up, and we keep giving the same answers, because the situation hasn't changed." The world champion himself, logically, remains silent when asked about his future plans. In Spielberg, all he could say was "no comment."

This Marko's comment is exactly how I was reading it.

Max cannot officially enter contract talks with Mercedes because he is under contract (there is probably a clause forbidding it). This is why everyone (Dutch media) is saying there is no "official contract" so there is no Max "yes".

But, if you read it between the lines, it is quite likely that they have agreement in principle and once the exit cause is triggered (looks to be in a month), it will be signed.

[djones]

I don't even like Max. Indeed, I'd probably go out of my way to be negative, such as saying his 21 championship is fake etc.

But looking at things objectively and impartially, nobody can say George is overall equal to Max, let alone better.

There are many 'what ifs', just as there are in any comparisons. But come on, let's work on what's highly probable rather than highly unlikely.

Max has as many championships as George has wins. Does anybody honestly think that if Max were in the exact same car in the exact same scenarios as George over the years, there would only be 4 wins? A big fat no.

[Quantum]

Never worked since 2014. Not even with McLaren and Honda it worked...or RedBull and Renault. It only worked with works teams in the first years.

That's provably false, as Williams scored more points in 2021 than they did in 2022 and 2020. That alone should be enough to disprove the claim.
McLaren are rinsing everyone in 2025, and beat Mercedes in 2024.
Making the cooling solution out to be some sort of massive differentiator is a view I guess, but it would be baseless.

It is not a statement, it is a correlation.

It's a vacuous "correlation" that has no foundation for many, many reasons, but I'll state the obvious.
Firstly, it ignores the progress of Honda.
Secondly, it ignores the fact Racing Point had a W10 "pink Mercedes" in 2020 and used the 2019 designed car in 2021.
Thirdly (repeat point) Williams scored zero points in 2020 and then scored 23 in 2021.

[kurtj]

Does anybody honestly think that if Max were in the exact same car in the exact same scenarios as George over the years, there would only be 4 wins? A big fat no.

How does one make conclusions on things that never happened? I wonder.

[Matt2725]

Max has as many championships as George has wins. Does anybody honestly think that if Max were in the exact same car in the exact same scenarios as George over the years, there would only be 4 wins? A big fat no.

Well he's winning nothing in the Williams so that would be equal.

The races Merc won in 2022, 2024 and 2025, they had the best car. Max is hardly winning it all when he doesn't have the best or close second car.
Maybe Canada 2024 for Max....that's about it. 5 wins vs 4 wins. No championships either way.

[Watto]

Helmut Marko today in Der Kleine Zeitung.

Helmut Marko has clearly refuted the reports from Italy: "He hasn't signed and can't," said the Graz native regarding the latest rumours. As Marko emphasized several times in Spielberg, the Dutch superstar has a contract until 2028. Logically, this contract, as usual, includes an exit clause in the event of a lack of sporting success. However, at the moment, the sporting conditions for an early termination of the contract are far from being met.

Therefore, Marko is also confused by the recurring topic. "It's just getting annoying. The same questions keep coming up, and we keep giving the same answers, because the situation hasn't changed." The world champion himself, logically, remains silent when asked about his future plans. In Spielberg, all he could say was "no comment."

This Marko's comment is exactly how I was reading it.

Max cannot officially enter contract talks with Mercedes because he is under contract (there is probably a clause forbidding it). This is why everyone (Dutch media) is saying there is no "official contract" so there is no Max "yes".

But, if you read it between the lines, it is quite likely that they have agreement in principle and once the exit cause is triggered (looks to be in a month), it will be signed.

yeah a lot of it reads like a classic player transfer while under contract, there would be talks with someone in Max's management


I don't think it's all certain yet but I do think it's very serious too.


Toto has gone out of his way to defend Max in recent times its felt like something is up in the background.

I don't even like Max. Indeed, I'd probably go out of my way to be negative, such as saying his 21 championship is fake etc.

But looking at things objectively and impartially, nobody can say George is overall equal to Max, let alone better.

There are many 'what ifs', just as there are in any comparisons. But come on, let's work on what's highly probable rather than highly unlikely.

Max has as many championships as George has wins. Does anybody honestly think that if Max were in the exact same car in the exact same scenarios as George over the years, there would only be 4 wins? A big fat no.

I think Max is the best driver on the grid by some margin, he can't work miracles in a poor car, but he's like Lewis in his prime too, relentless, when he looks under pressure and like pole might be out of reach he somehow finds the extra pace. If the Max thing eventuates and I think there is still lots of work be done there, I tink George can count himself pretty unlucky. This season he hasn't done a lot wrong. Think he has improved season on season at the same time, I'd say F1 and sport in general is littered with people that have shown glimpses of brilliance or like they could win WDC etc but when it came to the crunch it doesn't always pan out the way.

Will be interesting to see how this gone anyway,

[avantman]

Max has as many championships as George has wins. Does anybody honestly think that if Max were in the exact same car in the exact same scenarios as George over the years, there would only be 4 wins? A big fat no.

I mean the dude literally scored fewer podiums than Hamilton in each and every season as teammates. Even Button was good enough to score more over the same stint of three years. And look what Leclerc does in the same car now. What are we even talking about?