2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Macklaren]

Is there realtime feedback for the teams on plank wear or is it based on just guesswork ?

Surely they have a sensor but it was interesting to see the engineer looking under the car in parc ferme after the race

[Luscion]

Whats you guys' opinion on this?

[atanatizante]

...

2. He can't digest the fact that his muscle memory from decades of 'slam-the-brakes-with-steering-angle for as late corner entry as possible', is difficult to get rid of; and it pains him to see LeClerc (who doesn't have this problem) put the car on pole. It's a cruel reminder to him that if the car is in the right hands, it isn't that bad after all.

Before you post something regarding F1 driver skills, but mostly because your hate clouds your judgement, I`d recommend you see the reasons behind HAM`s struggles at Ferrari, from the point of view of a renowned specialist technical coach and mentor for open formula drivers:

[SB15]

But they are fairly clearly stating that any gains are too small to be worth bothering with.

So it's certainly not any kind of evidence that this aspect of Ferrari's suspension is the major problem.

That's what I'm not getting. James Allison said that the potential lap time gain was not worth it when it came to the development offset towards the 2026 car. To put it simply: "It wasn't worth the risk because it'll hinder time focused on the 2026 car" because they knew that they had to focus soo much on next year especially when it also have new engine regs.

James even admitted that they would get better results with the front pull-rod because of the aero benefits it has on the ground effect. The only reason I sent this was to show that the whole pull vs push-rod debate wasn't nonsense.

Now when it comes to Ferrari, come on, I think ever F1 pundit can very easily conclude that the rear suspension is the leading cause of the problems for the Scuderia..there's no denying it. Unless Ferrari does what Mercedes did with the W13, get rid of points of downforce via the floor so that the suspension can comply with the ground effect, which is unfortunate to say.

You do not even understand that the quotes you put here are perfectly DISPROVING your statements???
They mean it is not because if you use pull or push rod! Also, your idea how pull vs push rod works is simply terrible... so far from reality.
I'll stop responding to you, but want to urge you to learn about what you are posting first.
Belief is NOT knowledge!! And all you have is beliefs. Suspension works entirely different than how you imagine.
And before you actually know what you are talking about, do not write about it. Thank you.

Well, If you're soo knowledgable what do you think is the problem? Since you said that my idea of "pull vs push works is simply terrible". Maybe you can explain without being so unnecessarily harsh and be respectful on what's really going on?

And if you think I'm saying one suspension is better than the other.. it's not. I'm saying in terms of how it's used for certain aero philosophies, there's a benefit and I said there was a reason why Adrian Newey, & now McLaren went with the same layout that's all I said.

No need to get angry.

[SB15]

That's what I'm not getting. James Allison said that the potential lap time gain was not worth it when it came to the development offset towards the 2026 car. To put it simply: "It wasn't worth the risk because it'll hinder time focused on the 2026 car" because they knew that they had to focus soo much on next year especially when it also have new engine regs.

James even admitted that they would get better results with the front pull-rod because of the aero benefits it has on the ground effect. The only reason I sent this was to show that the whole pull vs push-rod debate wasn't nonsense.

Now when it comes to Ferrari, come on, I think ever F1 pundit can very easily conclude that the rear suspension is the leading cause of the problems for the Scuderia..there's no denying it. Unless Ferrari does what Mercedes did with the W13, get rid of points of downforce via the floor so that the suspension can comply with the ground effect, which is unfortunate to say.

Ferrari's suspension definitely seems to be a big problem, but there's isn't much reason to believe the push vs pull aspect of it is the culprit specifically. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what point you're trying to make?

OH okay sorry, silly mistake! So I meant to add that how the Pull-rod or Push-rod is used for mechanical & aerodynamic purposes has its benefits depending on the regulation of car. One suspension is not better than the other, clearly that's really naive to think about.

To me, James was implying that for this particular generation of car, the pull-rod on the front suspension would've been beneficial for Mercedes due to how these ground effect cars prefer to be operated mechanically and aerodynamically. But, he doesn't see any reason to change it because while it would've worked, there was a new regulation period next year, so investing too much time into the 2025 car would've hindered the 2026 car's development.

So Mercedes seen a compromise and just stuck with concept from the W15 because that saved a lot of time, effort, resources and money.

[bluechris]

All my logic ends in the plank....i don't understand why they bullshit us since the start of the season. The must man up and say the mistake they did with the design for this year car is not solvable since the money goes for the car to next year.
With what they do now they pissed everyone and it's worse.

[AR3-GP]

All my logic ends in the plank....i don't understand why they bullshit us since the start of the season. The must man up and say the mistake they did with the design for this year car is not solvable since the money goes for the car to next year.
With what they do now they pissed everyone and it's worse.

It's not only the plank. Hamilton couldn't race because of brake overheating and LICO and it wasn't even warm yesterday. The SF25 is simply a catastrophe (like the other non-Mclaren cars). There are so many flaws in its construction that it's almost unbelievable. This is not Haas, it's Ferrari. Fred is just fortunate that no one better is available to replace him. I predict he will be gone at the end of 2026 when once again he allowed the 2026 car to underdeliver.

[sucof]

Well, If you're soo knowledgable what do you think is the problem? Since you said that my idea of "pull vs push works is simply terrible". Maybe you can explain without being so unnecessarily harsh and be respectful on what's really going on?

And if you think I'm saying one suspension is better than the other.. it's not. I'm saying in terms of how it's used for certain aero philosophies, there's a benefit and I said there was a reason why Adrian Newey, & now McLaren went with the same layout that's all I said.

No need to get angry.

If anyone here would actually know the problem, we would not be here. It is quite obvious, when Ferrari designed its car, they did not know this problem either. And only after testing, perhaps few races they started to understand. It is even possible, they still do not know exactly. So why would here anyone know???
We have like a billionth of the info needed to understand and know the problem, than they have. Not even mentioning the missing knowledge.

What we know is that between push and pull-rod suspension, there must be no such mechanical difference, that the engineers in F1 do not understand. That mechanical difference is in itself quite small as well.
CoG and small aerodynamics difference are usually more important when choosing between these two. Also, to redesign the suspension from one to the other is a huge cost, time, and takes away from other, lot more important development time and money. So they sometimes just stick with what they have.

The problem Ferrari and most F1 team have is to create car thats suspension works well with its floor. Current rules put a huge weight regarding performance on if you can run your car stable over the ground in regards to the floor, to maximise downforce. This is what RedBull got a lot better in the recent years. Remember other cars porpoising?
Ferrari specifically built new front and rear suspension for 2025. And they "simply" did not succeed in making the suspension work well with its floor and to keep the floor above a minimum height to protect their plank.
This is the most we can know.
We can only speculate if there is some very important knowledge they are missing regarding suspension, a new technology perhaps, or that their simulation is not perfect and what they design in the computer, does not work the same way on the track.
It can be that the whole car is not stiff enough, and they do not have the money and time now to redesign their monocoque, and their new rear suspension ought to help with that, with a moderate success.
Perhaps their tyre model is wrong in the simulation.
There were more than rumours that Mercedes used a flat rolling floor (instead of a coarse, more uneven) in their wind tunnel, that effed up all their measurements and simulations regarding ground effect, hence got their car wrong for years in this new area.
So who knows.
I mean, who in their right mind thinks here that they might know better than the actual Ferrari engineers who have the knowledge, the data, the actual hardware in their hands???
So just keep here everything light, never make statements that "we know" or this or that "obviously" better or worse... etc.

[FDD]

Regarding the lower top speed to save the plank, there is a little problem, namely in the 3rd stint CL is only a bit slower or he has better top speed than OP on the start/finish straight, maybe they manage something like fuel but that was completed after the lap 46 or so and also the top speed difference in those laps was not huge. That is to say, also, Russel is BS-ing.
Where he's loosing the time in the last stint is in the middle and last sector, tires (not optimal pressure) and some other problem.
No chances they were working to protect the plank.

[bluechris]

All my logic ends in the plank....i don't understand why they bullshit us since the start of the season. The must man up and say the mistake they did with the design for this year car is not solvable since the money goes for the car to next year.
With what they do now they pissed everyone and it's worse.

It's not only the plank. Hamilton couldn't race because of brake overheating and LICO and it wasn't even warm yesterday. The SF25 is simply a catastrophe (like the other non-Mclaren cars). There are so many flaws in its construction that it's almost unbelievable. This is not Haas, it's Ferrari. Fred is just fortunate that no one better is available to replace him. I predict he will be gone at the end of 2026 when once again he allowed the 2026 car to underdeliver.

They try to sqeeze anything that's why they opt for smaller cooling everywhere. Even the less fuel is a compromise to gain any tiny bit from everywhere. The brakes have problem also from their choosing to force more heat to the tyres.
This year's car is totally wrong imo and not salvageable.

[dialtone]

Whats you guys' opinion on this?

That account often posts stuff with minimal sources and no data support and in this case it's no different.

To be very kind, all of this is pure speculation.

* What is the source for "sky high tire pressure"? George Russell? LMAO
* What is the source of plank wear being there in this race? And how does Ferrari monitor plank wear so precisely to determine a whole strategy around a specific level of plank wear? Up to the point of understanding them needing 22" tires for the last stint because any more wear was too much wear.
* FS1, if the acronym is any indication, is a Fuel Saving 1 measure, what have been the past uses of said mode that imply it was special this time due to plank wear? Because it's very easy to just dismiss this to say you want plenty of fuel use at the start to create a gap but then you chill for the rest of the race and only use full power again if you need to defend. In fact FS1 is just a "prioritize corners over straights" mode.
* HAM had more aero load with a bigger wing and his top speed at lap 37+ was same as LEC at lap 8, presumably if they had plank wear they would have it more on the car with more aero load? Of course HAM pace was horrendous and often behind another car so he had no need to fuel save much.
* Once again... Plank wear happens mostly when the car rolls on long corners like those in China, in a straight line it's not that significant especially in a race where top speed is 280kph when they didn't have tire wear in SPA with a straight much longer and more power hungry.

This is just a couple points with just a minute research on the data, I'm not saying I'm right, but this is yet another example of that twitter account typically having low quality information in it.



This twitter account did a bit more analysis on the various rumors debunking this nonsense. What this twitter account says is more researched and has more data about it. And spoiler alert, it's more aligned with the chassis breaking. Given the big kerbs, it's likely that the new suspension linkages broke the chassis, I honestly believe this 100x more than any other theory and it's not particularly close.

Plank wear is not an issue and it wouldn't be managed like that, not in a weekend with 3 full practice sessions with both cars running, it's absolutely maddening that people in this forum prefer their biased opinions and assume the team is not telling the truth all the time. I'm positive when Lewis mentioned "Every time Every time" after Q2 most people here had already written a whole piece about how Ferrari somehow effed it up again.

[Waz]

Whats you guys' opinion on this?

Starting from an unexpected Pole is literally most of the drama. It's disappointing that he finished 4th after doing so well earlier, but if he had qualified 3rd or 4th as even he expected, this would be a good result, wouldn't it?

Although, I have said it before, probably last year or earlier even, when we had a spate of DSQs for plank wear, that the plank itself should be irrelevant in a GE regulation set without a defined minimum ride height.

[catent]

All my logic ends in the plank....i don't understand why they bullshit us since the start of the season. The must man up and say the mistake they did with the design for this year car is not solvable since the money goes for the car to next year.
With what they do now they pissed everyone and it's worse.

It's not only the plank. Hamilton couldn't race because of brake overheating and LICO and it wasn't even warm yesterday. The SF25 is simply a catastrophe (like the other non-Mclaren cars). There are so many flaws in its construction that it's almost unbelievable. This is not Haas, it's Ferrari. Fred is just fortunate that no one better is available to replace him. I predict he will be gone at the end of 2026 when once again he allowed the 2026 car to underdeliver.

It seems you are speculating quite a lot (unless you work for Ferrari).

What are these many flaws in the SF-25's construction? Dealing with a myriad of issues does not mean there are a myriad of flaws; it could be a singular (very big) flaw / point of failure that is causing many downstream effects.

If every other team - save McLaren - have also produced catastrophic racecars, why are their TPs not also coming under your fire, such as Wolff?

And why do you assume the 2026 car will underperform, and that it will be Vasseur's fault if it does? He cleaned up the 2023 mess and produced a near WCC-winning car in 2024; for the first time in his 3-season tenure, they have had a disappointing performance in this 2025 season, which seems to be largely (or entirely) an engineering issue.

I am not exactly thrilled with Vasseur and was open to the idea of the team exploring a new TP heading into the next regulation set, but I do not understand these speculative comments; they fail to acknowledge that the many baked-in assumptions are not known to be true.

[sucof]

They try to sqeeze anything that's why they opt for smaller cooling everywhere. Even the less fuel is a compromise to gain any tiny bit from everywhere. The brakes have problem also from their choosing to force more heat to the tyres.
This year's car is totally wrong imo and not salvageable.

If you are correct, then PLEASE tell me how is Ferrari second in the championship?????

I mean, come on, people be real!
I also ""love"" when they say, oh the Sauber, Haas etc are so slow... and how bad they are... really???
Only people say such things when they are far from reality. Those teams are within 1% of speed to the winning top team!!
When were you within 1% of anything top in the world???

Ferrari this year again built a car that is the second best overall. I think this is a GREAT achievement.
Last year they did it too.
Obviously they must have 99.9% of the things right and correct and on par with McLaren, to be second. (this number is arbitrary of course, but quite close to reality). I would never call such a car, such a team "totally wrong" and "not salvageable", sorry.

[AR3-GP]

It seems you are speculating quite a lot (unless you work for Ferrari).

What are these many flaws in the SF-25's construction?

The flaws are apparent to anyone with a working television.

If every other team - save McLaren - have also produced catastrophic racecars, why are their TPs not also coming under your fire, such as Wolff?

This the Ferrari team thread.

And why do you assume the 2026 car will underperform, and that it will be Vasseur's fault if it does? He cleaned up the 2023 mess and produced a near WCC-winning car in 2024; for the first time in his 3-season tenure, they've had a disappointing performance in this 2025 season, which seems to be largely (or entirely) an engineering issue.

I am not exactly thrilled with Vasseur and was open to the idea of the team exploring replacing him heading into the next regulation set, but I do not understand these speculative comments; they fail to acknowledge that the many baked-in assumptions are not known to be true.

It is an opinion.