2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Lasssept]

[SB15]

Better late than never.

[AR3-GP]

Better late than never.

All of this stuff is still within the noise of track to track suitability. Hungary lacks high speed corners. Kimi was over 1 second slower than George in Q2 despite the "confidence". The people who think he was close to George this weekend because of Q1 are the same people who think Tsunoda was close to Max because of Q1...As we saw in Q2 when the drivers start to push the car more, Kimi didn't go faster and George did.

This is not a criticism of Kimi by the way. It's more to the point of my feeling that the suspension stuff is just noise. They won with the new suspension in Canada. They were nowhere in Miami and Jeddah on the old suspension. Kimi was out in Q2 on "old suspension". There's something more fundamental that is affecting the Mercedes cars just like Red Bull. These cars have bad DNA, bad interaction with the tires, and bad aero concepts.

[Lasssept]

It's more to the point of my feeling that the suspension stuff is just noise. They won with the new suspension in Canada.

Gary Anderson:
In Montreal, where Mercedes finished first and third running the upgraded rear suspension, most of the braking is done before you apply steering lock, so the car would settle before you turn into the corner.

At other circuits, with faster corner entries, the driver will use some trail braking entering the corner to help get the front of the car into the corner. That appears to be where Mercedes’s problems arise.

link

[AR3-GP]

It's more to the point of my feeling that the suspension stuff is just noise. They won with the new suspension in Canada.

Gary Anderson:
In Montreal, where Mercedes finished first and third running the upgraded rear suspension, most of the braking is done before you apply steering lock, so the car would settle before you turn into the corner.

At other circuits, with faster corner entries, the driver will use some trail braking entering the corner to help get the front of the car into the corner. That appears to be where Mercedes’s problems arise.

link

Thanks for the source. I'll reserve judgement because I don't consider Hungary to be a high speed track. Mercedes had good days and bad days on all of their suspension types.

[Matt2725]

It's not a high speed track, but there are a lot of medium speed corners where you're still braking as you're turning in. That was the point.

In Montreal, it's more of a stop, point and go vs Hungary that is flowing corners where speed is carried into the corner and bled off on entry rather than before. Apart from the chicane, it's pretty much all that from T2 to T12, which more of the same in T13 and T14 onto the main straight.
Zandvoort will be more of the same.

[AR3-GP]

It's not a high speed track, but there are a lot of medium speed corners where you're still braking as you're turning in. That was the point.

In Montreal, it's more of a stop, point and go vs Hungary that is flowing corners where speed is carried into the corner and bled off on entry rather than before. Apart from the chicane, it's pretty much all that from T2 to T12, which more of the same in T13 and T14 onto the main straight.
Zandvoort will be more of the same.

Yes I get that but the last 14 rounds show that having the old or new suspension could produce any result (good or bad). They fix one thing and create other problems. Now the problem they tried to fix is no longer being fixed. What tracks will that come out at? I'm struggling to see any clear "win" from the old vs new suspension debate other than the drivers claiming to be happier (although there can be a lot of alternative explanations for why that is, like the basic setup of the car). Kimi still didn't make Q3 and his best lap of the race is miles behind George (he didn't always have traffic).

[OverheatedTurbo]

No more upgrades for Merc. Full focus in the W17 now.

[dren]

When are they going to upgrade Kimi?

[OverheatedTurbo]

It's not a high speed track, but there are a lot of medium speed corners where you're still braking as you're turning in. That was the point.

In Montreal, it's more of a stop, point and go vs Hungary that is flowing corners where speed is carried into the corner and bled off on entry rather than before. Apart from the chicane, it's pretty much all that from T2 to T12, which more of the same in T13 and T14 onto the main straight.
Zandvoort will be more of the same.

Yes I get that but the last 14 rounds show that having the old or new suspension could produce any result (good or bad). They fix one thing and create other problems. Now the problem they tried to fix is no longer being fixed. What tracks will that come out at? I'm struggling to see any clear "win" from the old vs new suspension debate other than the drivers claiming to be happier (although there can be a lot of alternative explanations for why that is, like the basic setup of the car). Kimi still didn't make Q3 and his best lap of the race is miles behind George (he didn't always have traffic).

Visually, the novelty of the new suspension was an increase in anti-squat correct? Perhaps there are more intricacies to it that it lets on, but seems that it led to more instability and better low speed traction? but not an improvement of tire wear. What I want to know is if they will keep playing with the brake cooling for the remainder of the season. In Spa, the introduced a larger intake on the rear corner and some modifications on the front/rear brake drum ductwork.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

When are they going to upgrade Kimi?

Every race weekend. It’s called gaining experience.

[dren]

When are they going to upgrade Kimi?

Every race weekend. It’s called gaining experience.

Seems like the upgrades aren't working as intended.

[dren]

No more upgrades for Merc. Full focus in the W17 now.

I think the team better hope they have a jump on the rest PU wise for next year. I don't expect the W17 to do it.