How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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dave kumar
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How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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Interesting article by Mark Hughes on BBC Website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 629477.stm

It is pure speculation as to what would have happened if it had been a dry race. I'm not interested in the speculation but he does offer a way to turn speculation in to a prediction that could be tested and is therefore falsifiable and a bit more scientific.
Differences in how various cars and drivers use their rubber are exaggerated here [Shanghai]. These patterns will be a good indicator, too, for how things might stack up in Barcelona - a track which, if anything, is even tougher for the tyres.

Of the top cars, the Red Bull was taking the most out of its tyres, the Ferrari was by far the kindest. One McLaren - Jenson Button's - was almost as good as the Ferrari in its tyre usage; Lewis Hamilton's car was almost as bad as the Red Bulls.

The soft compound tyre being used as the option in Shanghai was much faster than the hard, but also much more delicate.

From the wear rates Bridgestone was seeing in the practice sessions, it was unlikely to have lasted much more than 15 laps on the most aggressive usage, with a possibility of up to 30 laps for cars [and or drivers] that were gentler on it.

In other words the Ferrari was likely to have been able to use the faster tyre for up to twice as long as the Red Bull, had the race been dry.
So far so much speculation. Here's the science bit. I noticed that for the last few years Williams have provided a pre-race analysis of each track which they use to get a benchmark level for the amount of downforce to run. It was posted by Tomba on the F1 Technical website and I'm sure included some interesting stats about the track.

Does anybody have enough knowledge to make a database of turn radii (tightness), average cornering speed and tarmac abrasiveness to arrive at a value for estimated tyre wear for each circuit. Bridgestone must do this so they can work out which compounds to bring to each race. Combine this information with the compounds available for the weekend to see if tyre wear is marginal for a particular race.

What we want to see if there is any correlation between cars and driver finishing position and races where tyre wear is a bigger issue than normal (it may always be marginal for all I know). A more accurate indicator is the difference between qualifying position and finish position and this may be influenced (but probably not the dominant influence) by the difference in qualifying pace and race pace, which must have something to do with how you manage your tyres on short and long runs.

Would anybody want to try and estimate turn radii, average cornering speed, tarmac type (abrasive->smooth) for any of the circuits on the calendar? And is this sufficient data to estimate tyre wear?

I guess I'm going to be told I'm being far too simplistic but you've got to start somewhere and I thought this would be preferable to another circuit of the YingYang track which is fun to watch until you realise nobody brought a chequered flag to declare a winner.

Much Thanks,
Dave
Formerly known as senna-toleman

Jersey Tom
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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senna-toleman wrote:Does anybody have enough knowledge to make a database of turn radii (tightness), average cornering speed and tarmac abrasiveness to arrive at a value for estimated tyre wear for each circuit. Bridgestone must do this so they can work out which compounds to bring to each race. Combine this information with the compounds available for the weekend to see if tyre wear is marginal for a particular race.
Who says they do that?

Bridgestone has plenty of historical knowledge of each track to have a good idea of what will work and what won't. I'd imagine the compounds are small iterations from year to year... with the exception of recently where FOM wants one compound that's too hard and one that's too soft for the track.

I suppose it's possible they take a much more mathematical approach.. but why bother if you don't have to?

Besides, track 'abrasiveness' changes year to year.. month to month.. even hour to hour. It's not something you just squirrel away in a notebook.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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dave kumar
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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Fair comment. But aren't some tracks more abrasive than other, in broad terms?

I also agree that Bridgestone probably use historical data but seeing as Williams seem to use some sort of statistical analysis of track layout in the press release I referred to earlier, I wondered if this data was actually useful or just for the fans consumption.
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Jersey Tom
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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Some tracks have the POTENTIAL to be more abrasive than others, sure. Still, at the end of the day a lot comes down to what kind of car is driving over it and how much rubber is being put down.

In any event, track data is certainly valuable for anyone doing simulation work, be it a team or otherwise.
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Belatti
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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Tom, can you enlighten us about how much does track 'abrasiveness' changes after a rainy night where a good amount of rubber was down at the track? Or after another type of cars with another kind of rubber where using the track last week?

I understand that its very dependable on many things, but what Im asking is nothing too specific, but maybe something a race engineer must take into account or can check.

Thanks in advance.
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Jersey Tom
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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Sometimes rain "de-rubbers" a track, sometimes not. Sometimes another race series will put a lot of rubber down for you. Sometimes not. Sometimes even if that rubber is already there, running different cars over it will clean it off.

Take wear measurements, temps, and lap times for every set of tires you run over a weekend... will gauge what the effects are of the evolving track.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

marcush.
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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Jersey Tom wrote:Sometimes rain "de-rubbers" a track, sometimes not. Sometimes another race series will put a lot of rubber down for you. Sometimes not. Sometimes even if that rubber is already there, running different cars over it will clean it off.

Take wear measurements, temps, and lap times for every set of tires you run over a weekend... will gauge what the effects are of the evolving track.
Makes me think about my tyre management when I was handing out tyrelogbooks for each and every tyre used in every session..my mechanics hated me for that.. :lol:
the Pirelli guys did not care what I was doing but the Michelin boys were impressed...

mkeRed
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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The issue I see with this is the unpredictability of race lines used. Even if you went through the work to get a baseline abrasiveness for the track - something I'm skeptical about to begin with given clean line vs dirty line - it would be useless within minutes. All it takes is someone to lock up or spin or gravel spilling onto the track and your data is outdated.

The best you could hope for would be a rough baseline based on general curve radius - which can be changed lap to lap depending on traffic, lines, etc. - and at that point you end up with the general 'sense' of the track that the Bridgestone engi's probably use.

I'm not saying this is impossible but it would be a massive undertaking for relatively imprecise data. It does sound like a good bit of fun to me though. :lol:

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dave kumar
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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May be somebody can direct me to a site with some track data to get the ball rolling!
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Jersey Tom
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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dave kumar
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008, 14:16
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Re: How does Bridgestone know which compounds for which race?

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ow! somebody save me from Jersey Tom's razor (like Occam's only it hurts more).
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