Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

[mx_tifoso]

This will not become a thread where Hamilton is compared to other drivers because that's what starts the fanboy debates and we've had enough. Please discuss the situations and characteristics of why Hamilton "is so good at overtaking."

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Please discuss the situations and characteristics of why Hamilton "is so good at overtaking."

Is that not a matter of opinion? KERS helped that reputation last year....

[mx_tifoso]

Yeah that's fine but it shouldn't take the usual path of "Hamilton does this and X driver does that, so the latter is better,etc."

I think that it is because he goes for it. When other drivers see the door, they hasitate on passing. Hamilton doesnt. And the driver ahead, many times knows that if he doesnt move, his race can be over, too.

Also you should look at Schumacher being overtaken by him in Chinas hairpin. The control he had to slightly brake to let Schumacher go wide and then push the gas earlier was supreme and a marvel to watch. I think the other drivers doesnt try so hard on different lines as he does.

I agree with this, he simply has more courage and creativity to overtake than most. And I really enjoy to see him racing cleanly.

[Jersey Tom]

Hamilton just drives the car hard, simple as that. Particularly true on corner entry.. comes real close to locking inside fronts pretty frequently.

[ringo]

At the end of the day none of them can compare to hamilton with overtaking, not even Alonso or Shumacher.

None of them have the flair, and the level of control. not a fanboy statement either, but when he overtakes it seems like slow motion and it's almost as if the other car is floundering. He picks and chooses how he will go around, almost as if he is toying with the victim, then he makes his move. It's like poetry.

I am fully convinced of that this year, and i don't think qualifying further down the grid or KERS is a reason why he's doing these things. Ferrari had kers and so did BMW and renault.
KERS doesn't make you humiliate other drivers.

The other drivers are all in the same boat on overtaking skill. And If it takes someone to draw attention and try to convince another persen of a driver's overtaking skills, then that act alone proves the driver's overtaking is run of the mill. We shouldn't need convincing to see who is pretty good.
Same thing goes for wet weather driving, China 2010 said a lot in that regard.

The highlight reels tell the truth. And no other driver on the grid has the reels displaying masterful control in an overtaking maneuver.

edit: to stick the clarification of the topic. I would say he has a feel for the reduction in downforce as the car decelerates. The blue smoke we often see from his tyres, is showing he is trying to match the braking force with the exact limits of the tyre grip as the downforce goes down. He has shown less blue smoke this year, so it can be assumed he is getting better.

[ISLAMATRON]

Just something to add on the stong leg theory...

I have head from a Claude Rouelle seiminar a few years back that the drivers can't physically push hard enough to lock the brakes because the downforce is so hiegh and the tyres have so much grip.

It surprised me then, and I have never had it confirmed since so I'm not particularly inclined to belive it.

Just throwing it out there.

Tim

They can certainly lock the brakes(most of the time) and Hamilton has done it somewhat often, but not so much this year. BUT, at the end of the long straights the drivers can not generate enough force(no power braking) with their legs to lock the brakes because the inertia of the tires is too high for them to overcome, but they must quickly modulate the force applied because the speed decreases so much that they can quickly lock them after initial braking.

[Tim.Wright]

Yea thats what I meant sorry only at high speed

[lebesset]

although I started this thread because of the ridiculous ..it's his left leg ....article , I suppose there IS a valid discussion in that it is the control of the brakes that makes such a difference , in other words it is as important to be able to come OFF the brakes at just the right time

personally I don't believe hamilton is better endowed than the other drivers [ in the left leg department I mean ] , but he certainly seems to have that ability to brake harder yet still judge the transition to power on , wet or dry ; I think it was stirling moss who , back in the mists of time , pointed out that getting to the apex whilst gradually reducing the braking force was the quickest way round the corner by replacing the braking influence with power to maintain the balance of the car ; driving with the power on at the same time as you brake may sound a bit odd but that seems to be the way it is done ; I always think it is a bit like landing an airliner , you drop the flaps then turn the power up to balance the aircraft at the correct speed

[clarkiesyeah]

Pure self belief. There is no hesitation, he knows he can, so he does, frequently.

[andrew]

One of the best cars but poor qualifying. Of course the guy is going to pass slower cars.

Strong left leg? Good one. Just the standard of reporting in the Express. So patriotic it must surely hurt. All of the driver will have strong left legs so I'm sure this is not only attributable to Hamilton.

[clarkiesyeah]

Forgive me my insolence, but where did The Express get this figure of 100kg?

I'll run with it anyhow...

It is probably a figure of maximum output available in Hamiltons left leg, under some lab conditions. I suppose if he has so much power available in his leg he would therefore have greater control when applying lesser amounts of peddle pressure.
Like when you try to lift a weight thats too heavy, you can do it but its very shaky, if you were stronger the lifting motion is smoother and more controlled.

There, thats my reverse engineered take on what the Express is saying, or trying to say.

[kalinka]

I think he is the best at judging a level of grip avaliable at every milisecond. I was watching him driving in wet conditions, and if it was an onboard camera, I can't imagine how an earth he can go trough some places without dropping the car. Last time in china it was the same. Button slips out at the end of the race misjudging the braking point, but not Lewis. And he knows it and believes in himself enough to go for it. And i LOVE it.

[Mystery Steve]

100 kg may sound like a lot, but if you've ever done any extensive weightlifting (which the drivers most certainly do) then it doesn't sound so impressive. For reference: 100 kg is approximately 220 lbs. Essentially that's saying he's doing a 440 lb combined calve raise and leg press, which is frankly not a whole hell of a lot. It's not peanuts, but anyone who lifts legs on a regular basis should be able to do that easily.

So yeah, that article is crap...

[ringo]

One of the best cars but poor qualifying. Of course the guy is going to pass slower cars.

Strong left leg? Good one. Just the standard of reporting in the Express. So patriotic it must surely hurt. All of the driver will have strong left legs so I'm sure this is not only attributable to Hamilton.

Cant say the same for every driver. His teammate strugled to follow him through the traffic in malaysia and opted to pit early.
I think all the drivers have strong legs, some may be stronger, some may be more sensitive. Sensitivity may give a better edge.

[DaveKillens]

100 kg may sound like a lot, but if you've ever done any extensive weightlifting (which the drivers most certainly do) then it doesn't sound so impressive. For reference: 100 kg is approximately 220 lbs. Essentially that's saying he's doing a 440 lb combined calve raise and leg press, which is frankly not a whole hell of a lot. It's not peanuts, but anyone who lifts legs on a regular basis should be able to do that easily.

So yeah, that article is crap...

Of course it is, nothing but fanning the flames of fanboydom.

Many years ago I spent a lot of time and effort in strength training (motocross), and in all honesty, 100kg for each leg was something that was not difficult to do. The squat record with unlimited equipment is 566.9 kg (1250 lbs) held by Vlad Alhazov.

Anyone familiar with the mechanics of the body, especially bicycle riders, know that you generate maximum force near maximum extension, not in a full squat position. So when a claim is made that Hamilton can generate 100 kg pressure on the brake pedal, you are talking about an action that occurs right at the end of the leg extension. I weigh in excess of 100 kg, and if I did one-leg squats of just the distance of brake pedal stroke, it might take a long time before I got tired. Try it, do one-leg squats of just 10cm, and see how long you can do it. Not a very difficult exercise, not even worth doing in the gym.

The mechanism of passing is relevant too, because in almost every case, an inferior car cannot make a pass, just the opposite is true. The car making the pass, due to setup, or tire strategy, or whatever, must almost always posess superior performance in order to execute a pass.

In almost every pass, the attacking car has to get a good drive out of the preceeding corner, be capable of pulling up close enough to the defending car to get inside, and if that happens, it's almost always game over. The defending car is forced outside of the racing line in order to avoid a crash, and since traction is lesser there, it compounds the problem of being able to defend.

It's almost impossible to make a logical discussion about braking and passing when surrounded by so much emotion being generated by Hamilton's fans.