Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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shamikaze
shamikaze
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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mkay wrote:And, by the way, KERS does not give a higher top speed (so much for 'straight-line' speed advantage); only gives a better acceleration.
Yes it does, 80Bhp + X lb/Ft Torque at the top end will defenitly help in achieving a higher top-speed by the simple fact there is more power to conterbalance the drag. I'll give you that the top-speed will not be drastically higher, but it will be higher nonetheless. if not, a 140bhp car would have the same top-speed ans the same car with a 220Bhp engine and we all know that's not exactly correct. Also in normal cars, top-speed is directly related to aerodynmaic drag + rollign resisitance and power/torque. Since in a same car, drag/resistance should be same (or very similar ie 0,31 <-> 0,32cx) the power/torque available will make the difference.

Since the drag-coefficient in a F1 car is much higher then a road-going car (I thought in the area of cx 0,65-> 0,7), more power will result in a lesser rise in top-speed, but still there will be a rise.

However, keep in mind that under last year's regulations, KERS was not allowed to be used at speeds >300km/hr. So only on shorter straights you would have a direct result of the KERS power. In long straights you would benefit because the distance required to run up to 300km/hr would be shorter then for the same car without KERS so your KERS-unassisted engine would have more time to climb through the rev-range to achieve it's maximum speed where aero-drag and power become equal. Obviously you would need to take the weight-penalty into account, but I have no information available on how this would affect top-end speed for sustained acceleration.

Mystery Steve
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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timbo wrote:
mbvinnie wrote:Wouldn't the F-Duct, making the car faster on the straights have something to do with it.
It would, of course. Note that he had problems with Petrov and Sutil. And both cars are among fastest on the straights.
Not necessarily. If you're slow out of the preceding corner it may just be an equalizer and not necessarily an advantage. All the F-duct does is reduce drag a bit; it isn't a warp-drive button. If you can stay on another car's tail out of a corner, then certainly it helps. There have been occasions where Lewis has struggled to do this. For example: in Australia when he was chasing down Alonso (I think it was Alonso or maybe Massa... memory is fuzzy) and he kept trying to sneak by in Turns 1&2 rather than set himself up for the pass in Turn 3.

mkay
mkay
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Joined: 21 May 2010, 21:30

Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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shamikaze wrote:
mkay wrote:And, by the way, KERS does not give a higher top speed (so much for 'straight-line' speed advantage); only gives a better acceleration.
However, keep in mind that under last year's regulations, KERS was not allowed to be used at speeds >300km/hr. So only on shorter straights you would have a direct result of the KERS power. In long straights you would benefit because the distance required to run up to 300km/hr would be shorter then for the same car without KERS
You just proved my point... Helps only in acceleration.

Furthermore, the gears were set so that they would hit the limiter anyway, KERS or not. McLaren hasn't been dominant in terms of top speed in 2009. KERS is far more useful in acceleration than in top speed.

timbo
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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Mystery Steve wrote:
timbo wrote:
mbvinnie wrote:Wouldn't the F-Duct, making the car faster on the straights have something to do with it.
It would, of course. Note that he had problems with Petrov and Sutil. And both cars are among fastest on the straights.
Not necessarily. If you're slow out of the preceding corner it may just be an equalizer and not necessarily an advantage. All the F-duct does is reduce drag a bit; it isn't a warp-drive button. If you can stay on another car's tail out of a corner, then certainly it helps. There have been occasions where Lewis has struggled to do this. For example: in Australia when he was chasing down Alonso (I think it was Alonso or maybe Massa... memory is fuzzy) and he kept trying to sneak by in Turns 1&2 rather than set himself up for the pass in Turn 3.
But that he had more problems overtaking cars like Renault and FI is not a coincidence IMO.

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ringo
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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I am yet to see an explanation as to why he was able to battle with Mark Webber for so many laps in the video i posted. Mark has a car that is 2 to 6 seconds a lap faster.
Why is Hamilton pressuring him?

Secondly a top speed advantage only means you have to find a balance in late and early braking to pass the car in front. Higher speed equates to more bravery in late braking, so KERS or the F duct doesn't take away the difficulty in passing. They make it more difficult to judge when to brake.
Now if we look into more detail, and focus on the things he is doing while overtaking; his craft. We see very tactical and deliberate maneuvers. I don't know who else does this on the grid. These movement have nothing to do with the capability of the car. As lebesset says, he pressures the other drivers with his track presence.

Who else does this, and what are some examples?
For Sure!!

rifrafs2kees
rifrafs2kees
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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I don't know why he's good but I will speculate just from the tapes i see.
Ability to Multitask: He brakes so late and yet he has enough composure to steer very smoothly. You watch other drivers and when they brake late, they jink the wheel all over the place.
Smooth Steering imput: While he and alonso are probably the best currently, his smooth steering gives him the advantage in the wet as in the wet, u're really trying to coax the car into the turn...not bully it into it. Smooth steering is king in the wet.
He's decisive: There's no abiguity as to what he's doing. He goes for it and u know exactly what he's intends to do. A lot of drivers halfway commit. It's as if they're trying and hoping the rest fall in place.
He has self awareness: If u watch a lot of his maneuvers, many times, he looks directly at what the other car is doing the whole time while overtaking and yet can keep his sense of direction. This is why he was able to avoid contact with Webber when Webber run wide in Australia. He also has the habit of jinking wide at the last minute after he's squeezed others in to make room for overtaking. Many drivers do none or very little of this

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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ISLAMATRON wrote:
Belatti wrote:All drivers do arround 140Kg thats no mystery... Its not that Hamilton does 140Kg and the rest 50Kg...
source?
I have recently found this one:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCXMMAS4wCA[/youtube]

However my real source is different: my Brembo supplier. He is close to the Brembo engineers and even the owners, he travels a lot and knows a lot about brakes. He has helped us to develop our whole brake system and performance increased significantly.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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outstanding, thank you Belatti.. 150 kg huh? So is that easily attainable for all the drivers?

Belatti
Belatti
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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ISLAMATRON wrote:outstanding, thank you Belatti.. 150 kg huh? So is that easily attainable for all the drivers?
At least I guess its not that easy for the ladies :lol:
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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I wonder how they measure pedal force or if it is calculated from the line pressure... I wish I had the money for all that cool data acqusition on my race car.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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Why is Hamilton so good at overtaking?

2009 KERS
2010 F-duct

:)
More could have been done.
David Purley

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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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2007?
2008?

how bout 2006?

or ever since he started whooping kids asses in karts that were twice his age?

andrew
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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£2.5 million from an F1 team when your aged 7 sure does help.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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ISLAMATRON wrote:2007?
2008?

how bout 2006?

or ever since he started whooping kids asses in karts that were twice his age?
2007 Alonso was equally as good in a fast car(fastest of the year)
2008 Hamilton was partnered by Kovalainen who was a No.2 and the car was devlishly fast too.

And the small matter of being sponsored by Mclaren at the age of 13(nee 12 on some sites) does help somewhat! You see, Anthony Hamilton deserves credit here. Had any normal father had the request from his son to spend 30k a year on a "hobby" from the age of 4, 99.99% wouldve said with deep regret no!

And I can say after the age of 13 Hamilton was always destined to win a chamionship. But he didnt do it the hard way. He walked into a top team, and has had it good from the off.

Alonso minardi
Hakkinen Lotus
Schumacher Jordon
Senna Toleman
Villenuve did his time across the pond forging his reputation
Kimi Sauber

Look at Button who is supposedly so much slower than Hamilton. He is ahead of him in points and victories coming up to the mid way point. Who would've said that?

I suppose, as you are a Hamilton fan, you will take offence as to why some dont see it the same way you do. I for one think he is blindingly talented. He could go on to be a great. But right now? He is amongst a whole gaggle of drivers and is not head and shoulders above any of them for reasons I have givem KERS and F-duct.
What he does do though, is use these to his FULL advantage.

I will reserve final judgement on Lewis until (or even if) he is at another team that doesnt have the protective cloak around him.
In other words, until Hamilton joins the real world.
More could have been done.
David Purley

sAx
sAx
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 13:38

Re: Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:2007?
2008?

how bout 2006?

or ever since he started whooping kids asses in karts that were twice his age?
2007 Alonso was equally as good in a fast car(fastest of the year)
2008 Hamilton was partnered by Kovalainen who was a No.2 and the car was devlishly fast too.

And the small matter of being sponsored by Mclaren at the age of 13(nee 12 on some sites) does help somewhat! You see, Anthony Hamilton deserves credit here. Had any normal father had the request from his son to spend 30k a year on a "hobby" from the age of 4, 99.99% wouldve said with deep regret no!

And I can say after the age of 13 Hamilton was always destined to win a chamionship. But he didnt do it the hard way. He walked into a top team, and has had it good from the off.

Alonso minardi
Hakkinen Lotus
Schumacher Jordon
Senna Toleman
Villenuve did his time across the pond forging his reputation
Kimi Sauber

Look at Button who is supposedly so much slower than Hamilton. He is ahead of him in points and victories coming up to the mid way point. Who would've said that?

I suppose, as you are a Hamilton fan, you will take offence as to why some dont see it the same way you do. I for one think he is blindingly talented. He could go on to be a great. But right now? He is amongst a whole gaggle of drivers and is not head and shoulders above any of them for reasons I have givem KERS and F-duct.
What he does do though, is use these to his FULL advantage.

I will reserve final judgement on Lewis until (or even if) he is at another team that doesnt have the protective cloak around him.
In other words, until Hamilton joins the real world.
.............And of course a 19yr Jenson Button joining the 'backing marking' Williams BMW!! Lets not be too selective.


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