Alonso full of mistakes.

[lebesset]

just a couple of points ; I went to pre-season testing at valencia and barcelona

at valencia ferrari looked the class of the field , their long development period paying off ; of course at barcelona red bull showed that they were not , but ferrari still looked second best

when alonso won the first race I would say it was in the second best car , but he inherited the win like McLaren last weekend ; notice the car was good enough for massa to finish second which says a lot

and now ? joint third with mercedes is how it looks to me , or maybe I am flattering mercedes

uncle ron's ...racing alonso ...remark ;by this time in the season ron had obviously decided he would fire alonso ...after all that had happened , hardly a surprise

in his position wouldn't you want your other driver to win ? notice he didn't nobble alonso though ...I certainly would have but with ron the team always comes first

[Steven]

It's interesting to see how the general opinion has changed of Alonso since he left Renault in 2006. Nobody can deny he was a worthy champion then, he deserved those championships on merit after some excellent drives against excellent competitors. At that time there was nothing but praise.

Now, he's "overrated", I mean this sounds like everybody is jumping on the same bandwagon. The Spaniard has went through some interesting periods, first at McLaren and then again mixed fortunes at Renault. However, in neither of these 3 years did he a bad job, and never was he beaten by a teammate.

Same goes for this year though. I expected it to take at least several races to get to grips with the Ferrari, but as of the first race he was quicker than Massa, and he actually still is, apart from a dismal Turkish GP (where Massa didn't manage to do much good with the Ferrari either).

I think the mistakes are rather uncharacteristic for Alonso who has been praised for his solid drives repeatedly in the past. I can only presume he is not yet 100% comfortable at Ferrari and may be trying to overcompensate the shortcomings of the car.

In fact, Ferrari's lack of recent updates and their goal to have an exhaust system like Red Bull at Valencia shows how Ferrari is doing at the moment. McLaren is in much better shape, they evolve their car themselves, without copying quicker cars (well everybody does to some extent, but still...)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Tomba

The inner working of the gutter press did for Alonso in english speaking countries.
The moment he collided with Mclaren over spygate, his reputation was muddied.
Im having a debate on the "why is hamilton sucha good overtaker" thread, in which all the Hamilton fans are adamant Hamilton beat Alonso in 2007

This is how far British press' influence has gone.

For the record, Alonso was EQUAL points with Lewis

[tarzoon]

This year's facts (so far) - you can keep completing and correcting this stuff:

Bahrain GP: Alonso won, clean drive

Australian GP: Alonso (ahead) crashed into Button, spinning; recovered to finish 4th

Malaysian GP: Poor qualifying, started 19th; gearbox problem during the race; engine blow on penultimate lap when he was 9th

Chinese GP: Alonso leading when rain started, fell to 10th; finished 3rd

Spanish GP: finished second, clean drive

Monaco GP: clean race, was caught sleeping by Schumi on the last turn

Turkish GP: poor qualifying (12th); struggled to pass Petrov; finished 8th


Alonso -- Massa:
Bahrain GP: Alonso
Australian GP: Alonso (rain)
Malaysian GP: Massa (rain)
Chinese GP: Alonso
Spanish GP: Alonso
Monaco GP: Massa
Turkish GP: Massa

[WhiteBlue]

I'm not sure I fully agree with your generally positive view of Alonso on those points, Tomba. So let me give you the critical view there.

It's interesting to see how the general opinion has changed of Alonso since he left Renault in 2006. Nobody can deny he was a worthy champion then, he deserved those championships on merit after some excellent drives against excellent competitors. At that time there was nothing but praise.

I agree with regards to 2006. Alonso generally did a good job against a worthy opponent there. 2005 though was more a walk in the park campaign. Räikkönen was plagued by reliability concerns and lost too many points that way. Schumacher practically played no role in the 2005 campaign unless you count the Indianapolis Michelin disaster as a fair race. To me 2005 Alonso was simply in the dominant car and was rewarded for good work in previous years that got him into that car.

The Spaniard has went through some interesting periods, first at McLaren and then again mixed fortunes at Renault. However, in neither of these 3 years did he a bad job, and never was he beaten by a teammate.

In my view Alonso had a free choice of team mates at Renault and he did not care for a strong challenger. You can compare that to Schumacher at Ferrari who had a big say about his team mate. At McLaren Alonso needed to beat his rookie team mate to cement a reputation as one of the great champions. For whatever reasons he did not do this. Yes, it is opinion from my side, but I said I would provide the critical view.

Same goes for this year though. I expected it to take at least several races to get to grips with the Ferrari, but as of the first race he was quicker than Massa, and he actually still is, apart from a dismal Turkish GP (where Massa didn't manage to do much good with the Ferrari either).

No objections there. But Massa is not the man he was before his accident although Alonso has beaten him fair and square. Similarly to 2005 I see a lot of luck behind the Alonso's current WDC point standing. Considering he made several crucial mistakes he is still in a pretty good position in the championship because his opponents were many, also messed up and had bad reliability. Alonso still has the chance to come back as a great champion with Ferrari. So we will see if Ferrari and Alonso are there or there about in 2010.

[jddh1]

As a Ferrari fan, I am very concerned about the driver situation over there. Is Alonso really worth it. I hope he is and I hope I'm wrong and he turns it around because we paid him so much money. But in a way, I also hope Massa gets up on his face, driving wise. But let's have that car move a little faster first. This business of missing Q3 is not cool with me.

[ISLAMATRON]

Tomba

The inner working of the gutter press did for Alonso in english speaking countries.
The moment he collided with Mclaren over spygate, his reputation was muddied.
Im having a debate on the "why is hamilton sucha good overtaker" thread, in which all the Hamilton fans are adamant Hamilton beat Alonso in 2007

This is how far British press' influence has gone.

For the record, Alonso was EQUAL points with Lewis

How many times must it be said? Points are not the best way to evaluate driver talent or even results... regardless Hamilton was still higher in the standings, even on points but still higher in the standings, a rookie shouldnever be ableto match a 2XWDC like that, but he did.

I can deny that he was a worthy champion in 2005 and 2006, in 2005 Michilen won every(real) race, Kimi was better, but Lonso's car was more reliable. 2006 Renault won 7(6 for Alonso) of the first 9 races until Brigestone found something and won one all the remaining races excepts for Jensen's lucky first win, and Japan where MS was leading and blew up. Alonso enjoyed a superior tire and still did not maximize his advantage, he did less than what Button did last year.

[donskar]

I'm simply speechless at the posters who are willing to attribute any WDC to "luck."

WB had an important post:

I agree with regards to 2006. [I think most of us will agree with WB here.] Alonso generally did a good job against a worthy opponent there. 2005 though was more a walk in the park campaign. Räikkönen was plagued by reliability concerns and lost too many points that way. Schumacher practically played no role in the 2005 campaign unless you count the Indianapolis Michelin disaster as a fair race. To me 2005 Alonso was simply in the dominant car and was rewarded for good work in previous years that got him into that car.

Being in the best/one of the best cars usually is not "luck," but as WB says, is reward for "good work in previous years." The best drivers (almost always) get the best cars.

Also, "Räikkönen was plagued by reliability concerns and lost too many points that way." OK, that's a fact. But should points be deducted from Alonso because Kimi has reliability problems? Do we derive some mathematical formula to re-score previous championships, basing them on some form of "merit"?

Let me posit why we have threads like this one:
1) Hamilton is the recipient of unbridled man love by a segment of fans, and Alonso is seen as a villain in relation to Hamilton. Alonso was the man who had the temerity to challenge Hamilton on and off the track.
2) Alonso drives for the most loved -- and most hated team in F1.

[andrew]

I would like to say that my opinion of Alonso has not changed. I didn't particularly like the guy then after crashgate, I liked him even less.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

How many times must it be said? Points are not the best way to evaluate driver talent or even results...

Pray tell us what is ISLAMATRON, Your eyes?
Points IS the best way to differentiate drivers over a season.
Or otherwise we can scrub all of F1 history just so you can make your point?
Please mate see the sense and just accept Hamilton is not GOD!

[andrew]

I would have to agree that points are the best way to judge performance becasue what do points make? Prizes!!

Race performances are generally not remembered butpoints are as point win championships.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Its not only ridiculous, but plain abboherent to suggest points are not the best indicator as to whom is best.
Why give a title to the guy who has the most? I mean cmon!
I suppose the prize should go to whom Islamatron thinks is best!!!

[andrew]

Never guess who that would be.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Never guess who that would be.

Hmmm
The tension is unbearable...WHO COULD IT BE!

Did you see the "is Lewis Hamilton gay?" thread? I lolled
Ahem, it is now rightfully locked...

[andrew]

I think it would be Schumacher. They are clearly a fan of his.