Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

[ISLAMATRON]

The ART team are the team to beat in GP2.
You can see his car is faster, why deny it? Had he been in a back marker team would it have been possible?

Nope

Ask yourself this. How did Lewis get the peachy ART seat? Through Mclaren of course!

Nico Rosberg won it the year before with the same team and passed drivers with relative ease too!
Whack him in a slower Williams or Merc and he is blunted.

The same would apply to Hamilton

People ought to be balanced when opining on these matters. Good he is, yes! Great? Dont make me laugh!

So How did Rosberg get the "peachy ART seat" was it McLaren? No he earned it by being a champion thru the ranks, the same thing Hamilton did(at a younger age even), difference being Hamilton did not have a WDC father to guide him and provide the finances.

Where is Hamilton's ART teammate Premat? or di grassi or grosjean who also drove for them?

Hamilton was a championship winning driver long before his association with McL, When he first met Ron Dennis he was picking up his british young drivers award(youngest ever), and then Ron waited acouple years after that to sign him. Hamilton deserved everything he got from McLaren, nothing at all was given to him, he earned it all with wins & championships.

It is you who is unbalanced.

[ringo]

EDIT : Yes, he didn't beat Alonso, but his performance as a rookie was way,way more than anyone could imagine before. He takes four wins, secon place in chapionship, and equal points like Alonso. Hmm...it sound me like someone got beaten here...

So he didnt get beat.... but he did?

What lengths are you going to here mate?
And Alonso had it tougher becuase he was fighting Ferrari AND McLaren! But I suppose you would say that McLaren loved alonso and wanted him to win ahead of hamilton?
I posted on this already, please read it.

Alonso was beaten. Plain and simple, If there was a medal ceremony Hamilton would have been on the second step, and Alonso would have been lower down on the third step.
If photos were taken and kept for record, 10 years in the future people are going to look back and say this rookie was second and the 2 time champ was third.

He was even outclassed in the last 2 races. 2007 was Hamilton's to lose not Alonso's. Not one to speculate, but had that strange gearbox issue to Hamilton's car in brazil not happen, Alonso would have been beaten even more convincingly.
Alonso didn't have it tougher, he has more experience in an F1 car and he knows all the tracks, so how is that tougher?
The fact that you are begging sympathy for a 2xWDC over a rookie is enough to show that Hamilton deserves his respect.

You speak of kers and f duct, but what about the overtakes where he does not use them?
Like the pass on vettel in the turkish GP on sunday? Explain that one.
And the retake of p1 from his teammate?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ringo, without being disrespectful they were equal.
And Alonso also had to contend with a McLaren team that didnt want him to win.
A fact I posted about with Dennis saying Lewis was AND McLaren were not racing Raikonnen but Alonso.


In 2007 Hamilton and Alonso both finished the season with the same victories and the same points.
How is it can you explain how he was beaten?
Please dont attempt to rewrite history....

Islamatron, you get offended at the merest hint of criticism of Hamilton.
So your comment on balance is void there my friend.

[ringo]

I agree that they tied on points. But Hamilton was clasified 2nd and Alonso 3rd.
Felipe Massa was fourth, not third.
They tied on points but not on clasification. Put it this way, If Alonso was to stay the following year, he would get the yellow camera post and HAmilton would get the red. They would not share red.

I have all the respect of Alonso, and i don't think of him any less that he was out classified in the standings by a rookie.

Alonso is classified third by the offical results, not second. He did not lose outright, but he was beaten on count back, showing that Hamilton had a more top heavy, or should i say robust results.
http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2007/

These are facts. The treatment of Alonso cannot be substantiated, so i can't comment on that.
The good thing is i watched the races, and felt Hamilton did more to lose this championship than Alonso did. This is why I think if they were to do it all over again Alonso would be beaten more comprehensively.
Hamilton is no longer a rookie, he has improved markedly and Alonso doesn't seem as good nowadays. It's hard to judge if those bad years at Renault made him any better.

I don't want to turn this into a Alonso vs Lewis thread, so i'll end there.

[sAx]

Kalinka

Take the Hamster out the Macca and into a Renault and see how well he goes.
Piquet is rubbish, and he was in a team funded by his dad! what do you expect. He is rubbish but still better than you or I.

In the end, I gave a reason for Hamilton being good at overtaking.
2 blindingly quick cars in 2007 and 2008
and Kers in 2009
And the F-duct in 2010.

Nothing I have read in response to my post has made me change my opinion of this.
This "reasons" are not belittleing Hamiltons achievements or skills as they are very good indeed. But there are REASONS for it.

No doubt the Hamilton brigade will come down like a ton of bricks!

Thanks for your insight, so Lewis' use of F-Duct is so superior to his teammate that it explains the Barcelona 5th place result.

sAx

[Steven]

Sure a discussion about who was best in 2007 does not fall within the topic of this thread does it? Can we please stop dwindling off topic and continuing to reply to off-topic posts?

[sknguy]

I'm not a Hamilton fan, but I have to respect the fact that he doesn't know what isn't possible. At times, in the past, he's struggled with beating up his tires and his car. Hamilton is good at making the most of his equipment's performance, maybe not so much about what it can't do. But I don't think he has any expectations for what a car can't do. He just wants the car to do what he wants it to do.

"Boy that Lewis Hamilton's good... but I have to tell you... nobody's as good as Lewis Hamilton thinks he is", borrowed quote, I can't remember by whom... I think it was originally about Dave Stieb, a Toronto Blue Jays pitcher. Could be wrong though.

Edit: Corrected the quote.

[PlatinumZealot]

Strange.. Ron Dennis said Hamilton knows EXACTLY what the car is going to do. I will retrieve the quote and get back.

[PlatinumZealot]

Dennis then insisted that the boy didn't drive racing cars until he understood everything about cars – how the brakes worked, how to conserve tyres and petrol and how cars were made. Hamilton had to be fitter than he'd ever been. "I wouldn't let him anywhere near Formula One until everything about him was ready."

"I said to him, quite simply, this is what I expect you to be. I expect you to be the fittest driver on the grid and to know the rules better than anybody else. I expect you to understand what happens when you ask the car to change gear - not just that it happens. And I want you to have at least 1,000 hours of simulator work.

I can't find anymore.. But you can see that Hamilton is not just some wild beast at the steering wheel. He definitely knows what happening or Ron Dennis wouldn't have so much confidence in putting a Rookie up against a 2XWDC in one of the best car on the grid.

[sknguy]

Your misunderstanding me. I wasn't saying he's some "wild beast" at the wheel. Those aren't my words. His style isn't as "wild beast" as say... Gilles Villeneuve. But like Villeneuve he gets as much out of the car as he can. Enough of this "wild beast" anyway. Thats a phrase I'd never use to describe someone's driving anyway. lol.

[speedsense]

Kalinka

Take the Hamster out the Macca and into a Renault and see how well he goes.
Piquet is rubbish, and he was in a team funded by his dad! what do you expect. He is rubbish but still better than you or I.

In the end, I gave a reason for Hamilton being good at overtaking.
2 blindingly quick cars in 2007 and 2008
and Kers in 2009
And the F-duct in 2010.

Nothing I have read in response to my post has made me change my opinion of this.
This "reasons" are not belittleing Hamiltons achievements or skills as they are very good indeed. But there are REASONS for it.

No doubt the Hamilton brigade will come down like a ton of bricks!

Thanks for your insight, so Lewis' use of F-Duct is so superior to his teammate that it explains the Barcelona 5th place result.

sAx

F1 history is littered with examples of technology and great drivers that have put that technology to use.
The examples of the aids or the achievements of the technology are not without the driver's ability to adapt to the technology and make optimum use of it. It not like Hamilton is the only person with these tools, though he seems to make the best use of them and no matter how you look at it, the driver still has to optimize the use and put into their technique of driving either by adapting to it, making work for them or helping the engineer's ideas work for their driving.
I always remember the turbo era or the active era, where you had superior advantages in horsepower or handling over other teams, but it still had to have a driver that could put to use the technology as the other teams caught up.
Currently with the F-duct and there are now, what, 5-6 teams with it... Hamilton still seems to put it to use better than the others, even when one of the "others"... is his own teammate..
Did he also put to use KERS better than everyone else?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Really? 5 or 6 teams wow! apart from McLaren?
3 mate, and only Ferraris actually works....

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Kalinka

Take the Hamster out the Macca and into a Renault and see how well he goes.
Piquet is rubbish, and he was in a team funded by his dad! what do you expect. He is rubbish but still better than you or I.

In the end, I gave a reason for Hamilton being good at overtaking.
2 blindingly quick cars in 2007 and 2008
and Kers in 2009
And the F-duct in 2010.

Nothing I have read in response to my post has made me change my opinion of this.
This "reasons" are not belittleing Hamiltons achievements or skills as they are very good indeed. But there are REASONS for it.

No doubt the Hamilton brigade will come down like a ton of bricks!

Thanks for your insight, so Lewis' use of F-Duct is so superior to his teammate that it explains the Barcelona 5th place result.

sAx

Hmmmm because Spain had was an F-duct track???
Please mate, Button was stuck behind Schumacher. He dispatched Schumacher on the first lap in Turkey using the F-duct. Schumacher himself even said there was no chance for Button to overtake him without sending them both off in Spain.

But I s'pose Lewis Miraculous and god like abiltieswould have overcome Mercedes and Schumacher at Spain, a track know for being obdurate for overtaking!
Apples with apples please

[Shaddock]

One of the technical reasons that LH is good on the brakes is that he uses Carbone brakes on his car. These are very powerful (some engineers say the best) but 'grabby' on application and do not suit all driving styles.

Alonso when he moved to McLaren from Renault could not get on with them at all and insisted that McLaren switch his car to his favoured Hitco (again rumoured to be not as powerful) brakes. These give more feedback and allowed Alonso to ‘jump on or stab’ the brakes without causing locking of the front wheels.

Look at the race video of Canada 2008, Alonso was told that his cherished Hitco brakes would not last the race distance, and he would have to use Carbone along with the Ferrari drivers (moving from Brembo). Alonso was clearly not happy with the brake feel, and spent most of the race with a locked inside wheel and off the track practicing rally cross.

Just being able to use one type of brake doesn’t make you good at overtaking by itself, but having the confidence and feel to use a brake that’s know to be grabby but stops like a brick wall helps.

[Reventon]

One of the technical reasons that LH is good on the brakes is that he uses Carbone brakes on his car. These are very powerful (some engineers say the best) but 'grabby' on application and do not suit all driving styles.

Alonso when he moved to McLaren from Renault could not get on with them at all and insisted that McLaren switch his car to his favoured Hitco (again rumoured to be not as powerful) brakes. These give more feedback and allowed Alonso to ‘jump on or stab’ the brakes without causing locking of the front wheels.

Look at the race video of Canada 2008, Alonso was told that his cherished Hitco brakes would not last the race distance, and he would have to use Carbone along with the Ferrari drivers (moving from Brembo). Alonso was clearly not happy with the brake feel, and spent most of the race with a locked inside wheel and off the track practicing rally cross.

Just being able to use one type of brake doesn’t make you good at overtaking by itself, but having the confidence and feel to use a brake that’s know to be grabby but stops like a brick wall helps.

Are Hamilton and Button using the same brakes this year ? .....