Montezemolo still banging on about third cars

[flynfrog]

Montezemolo can bang on about what ever he feels like, few people take any notice of him any more. His time is limited.

pot meet kettle

Id rather have Honda Toyota and BMW over the mosley backmarkers

[autogyro]

So go tell the bankers and the car manufacturers.
It is they who went tits up and pulled the plug not Max.

[WhiteBlue]

So go tell the bankers and the car manufacturers.
It is they who went tits up and pulled the plug not Max.

It is pretty obvious where the battle lines were drawn in the Monte vs Max fight. Ferrari are mainly concerned to grab the money from FOM and want as few as possible top competitors to share it with them.

The FiA under Mosley and clearly under Todt as well wants a semi open series with resource restrictions that can operate on lower budgets but on higher as well. The credit crunch and the recession with the subsequent manufacturer pull out have clearly shown that the FiA concept is the right way to go.

When F1 gets another chance to influence the economic conditions by the CVC exit and the advent of a new owner or in 2012/2013 when the concord expires it is vital that the FiA apply pressure for a less exploiting finance model with lower race fees. That is more important than giving Ferrari, McLaren and Co another $350mil annually.

[Chaparral]

The FiA under Mosley and clearly under Todt as well wants a semi open series with resource restrictions that can operate on lower budgets but on higher as well.

That makes no sense what do you mean

The credit crunch and the recession with the subsequent manufacturer pull out have clearly shown that the FiA concept is the right way to go.

Why

[Giblet]

Because, teams spending the massive budgets of the former car manufacturers will come and go. Entering when money allows it, and leaving when money gets tight.

Smaller budgets mean a team can be more secure in their position to compete for a longer period of time. Toyota proved that mass amounts of money and resources contribute very little to success.

[WhiteBlue]

The FiA under Mosley and clearly under Todt as well wants a semi open series with resource restrictions that can operate on lower budgets but on higher as well.

That makes no sense what do you mean

Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best organization, not to those with the biggest budget.

As Dave Richards I believe that F1 should be open to a maximum number of competitors and not the privileged profiteering playground of very few super rich teams.

The credit crunch and the recession with the subsequent manufacturer pull out have clearly shown that the FiA concept is the right way to go.

Why

Because there are substantially only Ferari, McLaren and Mercedes left from the old elite. If they would have ruthlessly pushed out all other teams for their satellite teams F1 would already be on the brink of collaps. Mercedes future participation is as shaky as BMW's before. If the success they had with McLaren does not materialize they could be gone in two years. McLaren have a huge gamble on the commercial success of their road cars. Some people say F1 and road car business are not connected but I do not believe that. If the MP4-12C flops McLaren will loose their future. Investors and debtors alike will not favor them.

As it stands now we will have an independent engine supplier and private teams that can naturally grow and improve. When the next economic cycle goes up F1 can again attract manufacturers and their new technologies for the 2013-2020 markets.

[autogyro]

+1

I totaly agree.

[timbo]

As Dave Richards I believe that F1 should be open to a maximum number of competitors and not the privileged profiteering playground of very few super rich teams.

You know, that would be great if MrM and BE weren't a part of the force that driven likes of Minardy from F1 in the first place.
As soon as financial climate warms up again BE would willfully trade Virgin, Hispania and Lotus for any big pocket company.

[Giblet]

This 'force' was BE and ME allowing teams to spend quadrillions of dollars, and a team like Minardi was unable to keep up with the big dogs during times of uncertain rule changes and huge budgets.

Bernie has no power. Once a team owns a spot, and they can keep a budget afloat, they are in it until they choose not to be. Minardi never had to leave for any other reasons other than those of Stoddart and his bottom line. Maybe BMW or Honda will come back and buy an existing team, but they can't just muscle themselves in when there is no spot to do so.

[autogyro]

What you say is to a degree true timbo but power politics and the world economy has always been and always will be equaly as important to the future of F1 as the pure engineering and driving.
In the times you mention timbo, Minardi was in as good a position as many to thrive from the financial incentives of the time.
Do not forget that Max and Bernie have built F1 into the biggest motor sport series in the world. A huge achievement.
If it was not for their input F1 would no longer exist. A smaller less well established formula of this type would have failed in the present economic climate.

[andrew]

Do not forget that Max and Bernie have built F1 into the biggest motor sport series in the world. A huge achievement.
If it was not for their input F1 would no longer exist. A smaller less well established formula of this type would have failed in the present economic climate.

I sincerely doubt it. F1 was extremely successful before the Bernie and Max show started and it will be successful after they both disappear. If anything, they have nearly brought about F1s downfall with the talk of the breakaway series( [-o< ).

[Giblet]

You are not actually suggesting the breakaway had anything to do with Max and BE are you?

You understand that was FOTA right? Max attempted a breakaway series a long time ago, and even had a breakaway race, but realized it was doomed to fail.

[timbo]

Bernie has no power. Once a team owns a spot

I think these two are mutually exclusive.

[WhiteBlue]

This thread is about third cars and why Montezemolo is pursuing the issue although it is forbidden by the concord agreement and the FiA sporting regulation.

Everybody should realize that customer cars are doing exactly what Joe Saward said about the process. They would push the lesser teams out of F1 and F1 would end up with a hand full of players. Because that policy is also associated with unlimited spending none of the players would realistically be more financially secure either. The reduced number of players would still be subject to suddenly go broke or their participation could be terminated by the whim of a rich individual or a corporate board which had no roots in racing.

In the interest of the continuity of the series fans should support the FiA policy of cost limitation and establishing full grids by licensing new teams.

Of course the question of how FOM's money is distributed is related to the question. I have not heard a single point that speaks against Saward's theory that the third car campaign is ultimately motivated by a money grabbing scheme. The question of how F1 will continue or fail in the future is relevant to fans and spectators alike. Why should another $ 350 mil annually fall into the hands of banks or super rich teams if we have a permanent crisis of promoters and good race venues going bust? That is certainly an issue that users of this board should be concerned with.

[DaveKillens]

In the interest of the continuity of the series fans should support the FiA policy of cost limitation and establishing full grids by licensing new teams.

I also agree on that statement, although I reached my opinion via a different path.

The sanctioning body should attempt to maintain a realistic and fair playing field for everyone. It doesn't make sense in Formula One where a team may have a ceiling of 30 million, while others may have access to much more money, and be willing to spend hundreds of millions. The solution is easy, set a realistic budget, and enforce it.

I'm opposed to allowing factory teams any influence, their role should be just to participate, and hopefully win. Although factory teams are staffed by serious race nuts, they are controlled by accountants who perceive all this as an advertising campaign, and could pull the plug based on their personal marketing goals and strategies.

Monty wants this, Monty wants that.. of course, he's campaigning to improve Ferrari. Understand this.. Monty is paid a truckload of money to advance the fortunes of Ferrari. That is his sole purpose, he isn't spouting off to advance racing in general, or even the interests of the fans.

There's nothing Monty would like more than a return to the heady days of 2000 to 2005, when Ferrari and Michael Schumacher dominated. Those were dark days for motorsports fans, because with great regularity, the outcome was predictable and boring. Compare that to the present, where we have lots of drivers and teams all mixed in a wonderful battle. Right now, today, no one has a commanding lead in the points, the final outcome is very uncertain. And for me, that is interesting, exciting, and worth following.