Strange going-ons at Red Bull

[myurr]

Kimi doesn't care who drives the other car if the car is good. I don't think he would have given the prima donna act in the wing case, but YMMV.

Kimi would care about having equal opportunity as his team mate. Kimi wouldn't have been any happier than Webber about having his front wing taken away. He may have reacted and dealt with it differently, but he would not have been happy. No top driver would.

[autogyro]

The result at Silverstone was pure luck for RB.
They have by far the best cars but still the drivers let them down.
The first corner could 'easily' have taken out both cars yet again.
It was totaly unacceptable from a team perspective.
Vettel came across off the line, not to guard against Hamilton but to put pressure on Webber, nearly pushing him in the wall.
Webber did exactly the same and ran Vettel off the road in the corner.
Hamilton simply capitalised on their stupidity.
Vettels puncture or any other contact was almost inevitable.
If Button and Hamilton were in Red Bulls they would have won both championships twice over by now.

[BreezyRacer]

Pure luck? Interesting statement. I'm not sure but I think there was a race going on there so two drivers shucking each other should be nothing new. Nothing stupid really, just two drivers that wouldn't give in. If there was any childish behavior it was on Vettel's swerve down the front straight when he realized he blew the start.

I EXPECT this kind of action when I watch F1, not some corporate parade. As for the McLaren drivers being better than the RB crop, there just is no way to compare except thru fan boi comments such as yours.

[BreezyRacer]

A most telling victory celebration pic from Silverstone ..

BTW, the guy with the wallet in his pocket is Christen Horner ..

[segedunum]

Kimi would care about having equal opportunity as his team mate. Kimi wouldn't have been any happier than Webber about having his front wing taken away. He may have reacted and dealt with it differently, but he would not have been happy. No top driver would.

Kimi would have been ahead and leading in the championship by now so the choice would have already been made. If Vettel is the wonderboy that is suggested then he just shouldn't need the kind of help he's been getting because Webber is by no means the perfect racing driver, as we all know.

I just can't understand what Red Bull are playing at with drivers like Heidfeld and Raikkonen sitting around and Kubica not being signed for next year until recently. They're even talking about Buemi.......... The Red Bull young driver programme is a disaster and they just need to accept it.

[andrew]

Webber needs to learn that he is the number 2 driver in the team and accept that Vettel correctly gets preference where new parts are concerned.

Get stuffed, Webber is the the Seasoned veteran who has been at RedBull for years, whay should he roll over for the young pup when we frequently hear that Vettel has used Webber's setup? Clearly Vettel still has a lot to learn!

Kindly remember your manners in future. There is no room for rudeness when you disagree with someone. [-X Yeah Webber is seasoned but he has never made it into a top team until Red Bull came good over the last couple of years. Vettel is simply a faster driver and a huge future talent and it is correct that the team back him more.

Bollocks, before the SC was deployed he was nowhere and tooling around in 1.37's while Webber and Hamilton where reeling off 1.35's - talking about throwing your toys out of the pram!

Again, whilst you disagree, there is no need for vulgarity and foul language. [-X Yes the safety car helped but on a high speed circuit it is difficult for ANYONE to catch up until the field gets bunched up for whatever reason. Still, last to 7th is a good drive by anyones standards.

[donskar]

IIRC, Webber has signed with RBR for next year, so there's no reason to bring Kimi into the discussion.

BOTH Webber AND Vettel have proven, through wins, poles and fastest laps, that BOTH are quality drivers with the potential to be WDC.

But facts like those are probably irrelevant to the suits at RBR -- they are in F1 for marketing, not trophies. I think RBR do favor Vettel, because:
human factors -- the guys in power LIKE Vettel better
Vettel is a product of the RB system
Vettel is a better long term bet than Webber
but mostly because Vettel is a better fit for the market they are after

And I agree with an earlier poster -- this year McL will get WCC and Hamilton WDC because of RBR's self-destruction. For next year, RBR should place Webber in another team (Toro Rosso?) or pay him off and replace him with a true #2.

[myurr]

Kindly remember your manners in future. There is no room for rudeness when you disagree with someone. [-X Yeah Webber is seasoned but he has never made it into a top team until Red Bull came good over the last couple of years. Vettel is simply a faster driver and a huge future talent and it is correct that the team back him more.

Vettel is still unproven as a huge future talent and he's being matched by Webber over the course of the season with each having peaks and troughs but failing to exert a dominance over the other. It would be foolish for the team to back one driver over the other where a bit of luck could swing things either way.

If their car is dominant either driver could win over the course of the season, if their car loses dominance then one unlucky or bad result could leave one or other driver with an unsurmountable points deficit. I understand the logic of backing a single driver to maximise your chance of winning by not having them take points off each other, but that only works if that driver delivers consistently enough. For whatever reason neither Red Bull driver is doing so at the moment.

Bollocks, before the SC was deployed he was nowhere and tooling around in 1.37's while Webber and Hamilton where reeling off 1.35's - talking about throwing your toys out of the pram!

Again, whilst you disagree, there is no need for vulgarity and foul language. [-X Yes the safety car helped but on a high speed circuit it is difficult for ANYONE to catch up until the field gets bunched up for whatever reason. Still, last to 7th is a good drive by anyones standards.

Most people's issue isn't that Vettel came through the field it's that he displayed no interest in trying to fight back into contention until the safety car did most of the hard work for him. This wasn't a drive where he chased down the pack and passed - it was a drive where the pack was closed up for him, he passed a few cars and a few others removed themselves from contention for a variety of reasons. I personally also dislike the way some are claiming his pass on Sutil as being amazing when from my point of view it was actually a very clumsy overtake where he was lucky not to damage one or other car. Had he hit and damaged Sutil's car he would have been given a penalty for that move, in my view.

But when woken up by the safety car he did put in some good laps and he did pull off a couple of well executed overtakes. It just wasn't the great recovery drive that some are making it out to be.

[carvetia]

Again, whilst you disagree, there is no need for vulgarity and foul language.

I don't think how he expresses himself dictates which person is more or less ignorant. I would suggest not stoking the fire if the flames are not to your liking.

[andrew]

I am in no way commenting on anyones intelligence or accusing anyone of ignorance (don't know where you got that from?). I am pointing out that expressing ones self through foul language does not create a good image and encourage discussion. I can't see any stoked flames anywhere.

[myurr]

IIRC, Webber has signed with RBR for next year, so there's no reason to bring Kimi into the discussion.

BOTH Webber AND Vettel have proven, through wins, poles and fastest laps, that BOTH are quality drivers with the potential to be WDC.

But facts like those are probably irrelevant to the suits at RBR -- they are in F1 for marketing, not trophies. I think RBR do favor Vettel, because:
human factors -- the guys in power LIKE Vettel better
Vettel is a product of the RB system
Vettel is a better long term bet than Webber
but mostly because Vettel is a better fit for the market they are after

And I agree with an earlier poster -- this year McL will get WCC and Hamilton WDC because of RBR's self-destruction. For next year, RBR should place Webber in another team (Toro Rosso?) or pay him off and replace him with a true #2.

I agree that to Red Bull it's all about marketing - they're trying to build Vettel up into the new Schumacher. Like him or not MS was a massive marketing force and brand in his own right, and Red Bull think they can build something similar. Coupled with Dr Marko and his desire to justify their young driver program, and I think that's at the heart of all of Red Bull's decisions.

Their problem is they haven't factored in two things:

1) Either Vettel isn't as good as they thought or Webber is a bit better, but the two are closer and fighting harder than expected and I think both drivers are getting a little bit desperate and emotional. They're both under huge pressures but for different reasons, Vettel as he's supposed to be the new Schumi and should be comfortably beating his team mate, and Webber as the journey man who is at the cross roads where he can really prove whether he has 'it' or not.

2) A large portion of the public have a sense for fair play, and dislike drivers that win because it is gifted to them in unequal circumstances. In the UK especially we tend to cheer for the underdog.

All in all Red Bull are damaging their brand with the way they appear to be trying to manipulate the championship for their drivers, and in doing so are damaging Vettel's brand. Vettel in turn appears, to me at least, to have become a lot more arrogant and petulant this season - be it because of the pressure, because he's believing his own hype, or merely perception due to the teams handling of situations (most likely some combination of all three).

[Richard]

And I agree with an earlier poster -- this year McL will get WCC and Hamilton WDC because of RBR's self-destruction. For next year, RBR should place Webber in another team (Toro Rosso?) or pay him off and replace him with a true #2.

You mean someone like Kovi at McL, or Irvine at Ferari?

The irony being that McL ditched their obvious number 2 for a more equal partnership this year.

Red Bull are damaging their brand with the way they appear to be trying to manipulate the championship for their drivers, and in doing so are damaging Vettel's brand.

+1 It seems clumsy

[proutyc]

Will be intersting if this whole fiasco raises its head again. Though I feel sorry for Webber, and personally I'd like to see him win the championchip, Vettel was leading the points within the team so therefore he deserved priority treatment.

Did they have a another spare if Vettel damaged his nose in the race?

[Richard]

If they've set the principle as the favouring leader in the WDC, then lets see if that holds true in the next race ....

[djos]

Webber needs to learn that he is the number 2 driver in the team and accept that Vettel correctly gets preference where new parts are concerned.

Get stuffed, Webber is the the Seasoned veteran who has been at RedBull for years, whay should he roll over for the young pup when we frequently hear that Vettel has used Webber's setup? Clearly Vettel still has a lot to learn!

Kindly remember your manners in future. There is no room for rudeness when you disagree with someone. [-X Yeah Webber is seasoned but he has never made it into a top team until Red Bull came good over the last couple of years. Vettel is simply a faster driver and a huge future talent and it is correct that the team back him more.

Bollocks, before the SC was deployed he was nowhere and tooling around in 1.37's while Webber and Hamilton where reeling off 1.35's - talking about throwing your toys out of the pram!

Again, whilst you disagree, there is no need for vulgarity and foul language. [-X Yes the safety car helped but on a high speed circuit it is difficult for ANYONE to catch up until the field gets bunched up for whatever reason. Still, last to 7th is a good drive by anyones standards.

There was no foul language there, just some colourful expressions.