Strange going-ons at Red Bull

[autogyro]

Just as well you never said it to my late Mother, she would have kicked you in the family jewels and there were few people as English as her.

[Chaparral]

After all, we all know Alonso is the best...

thanks Ciro I did have a chuckle - mind you I agree about Alonso - but wish Mark good luck he's going to need it in that pit of vipers at RBR - my call - I think he'll win the battle

[gridwalker]

A quick etymology lesson :

The swear word b*ll*cks comes from a 15th century foot soldier's weapon called a bollox. This was a pointed stabbing blade, intended for the close quarters penetration of a mounted knight's armour.

The weakest point on the suit of armour was where the most plates came together, which happened to be the crotch (a site that was packed full of arteries, tendons and other anatomical features that you wouldn't want severed).

Henceforth, to be stabbed in the crotch became known as "taking a b*ll*cking" and the word eventually became synonymous with the family jewels.

I proudly display my authentic bollox alongside my katana.

Let us get back on topic now

Webber is being sabotaged as much as Alonso was : his perception of favouritism is simply going to spawn favouritism, essentially creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

[tok-tokkie]

From the front page of this board.

Horner declared to the British newspaper 'The Telegraph' that he regrets he didn't communicate with Webber. He said: “There has never been any pressure from Red Bull to favour one driver over the other. I didn’t have a conversation with Helmut Marko or anyone from Red Bull regarding the decision to give Sebastian the wing - it was purely a technical decision, which I discussed with Adrian Newey.

“My one regret is that I didn’t have time to discuss the issue with Mark personally prior to qualifying, as I’m sure that would have given him a more balanced understanding.”

Horner is a completely incompetent manager. His task is to make management decisions which enhance & promote the team. His failure is apparent to us all. This is so similar at the feeble attempts at damage limitation following the consequences of the pronouncements directly after the Turkey fiasco. Water level is way above his depth.

[autogyro]

I cannot agree, I believe that Horner is also being compromised by others above him in RB.
I can also see some truth in the wing change being a technical decision, which in simple terms it was of course anyway.

However there is definitely a bad atmosphere in RB that it is essential to change.
It is the 'main' reason for all the lost points this season.

[marcush.]

for me horner is the guy they put in this official positionbut he s not really in charge.
all these ill advised decisions come from the background and horner tries to sell it to the public..he always looks like he has to stand up and explain for dicisions not of his

[BreezyRacer]

Maybe I'm an idiot but .. I'm stunned that Webber didn't get spoken to before they stripped the front wing from his car, just before qually, and after he had been testing with it all weekend. Horner just took it without a conversation? That's pretty cold. No wonder Webber is/was visibly pissed! His car was turned into a rolling spare parts bin for Vettel.

[vall]

Maybe I'm an idiot but .. I'm stunned that Webber didn't get spoken to before they stripped the front wing from his car, just before qually, and after he had been testing with it all weekend. Horner just took it without a conversation? That's pretty cold. No wonder Webber is/was visibly pissed! His car was turned into a rolling spare parts bin for Vettel.

+1

[marcush.]

i´m sure nobody touches the car without Pilbeam at least knowing .If that was not the case they will never ever win a championship...AND the car must be even better because if the raceengineer does not know what is going on the car and what is not how can he be sure of the setup..

[WhiteBlue]

• Big mistake by Horner, very true.
• I also agree with autogyro that Marko steering things in the background is a recipe for desaster although he probably did not have a hand in this.
• Third, there could also be a clever strategy by Webber to disrupt the team and play games with Vettel's mind by putting the press blood hounds on his back, cheekily using the good opportunity of the wing story. It actually worked beautifully. Seb botched the start and as an added bonus got his tyre ripped up by Hamilton. Webber making hay while the sun shines. This may be his last chance to win a WDC anyway and so he doesn't care about burned bridges behind him.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

This whole mess boils down to the simple reason that Horner and Helmut thought the Wunderkind would blast Webber to smithereens this year.

That it hasnt happened is a credit to Webber, but that he is socking it back to Vettel in spite of Red Bull is even more impressive.
Whichever way this whole debacle ends, Webber has come out of it a winner IMO.

[Michiba]

• Third, there could also be a clever strategy by Webber to disrupt the team and play games with Vettel's mind by putting the press blood hounds on his back, cheekily using the good opportunity of the wing story. It actually worked beautifully. Seb botched the start and as an added bonus got his tyre ripped up by Hamilton. Webber making hay while the sun shines. This may be his last chance to win a WDC anyway and so he doesn't care about burned bridges behind him.

That's a very long bow to draw there. Surely even you can't believe that.

I think you have missed the point that a part was taken off Mark's car and given to his team mate. Given your suggestion, you'd be suggesting that Mark actually gave the front wing to Seb to execute this brilliant plan of his. I think you're the one with the heavily tinted glasses on mate

[WhiteBlue]

• Third, there could also be a clever strategy by Webber to disrupt the team and play games with Vettel's mind by putting the press blood hounds on his back, cheekily using the good opportunity of the wing story. It actually worked beautifully. Seb botched the start and as an added bonus got his tyre ripped up by Hamilton. Webber making hay while the sun shines. This may be his last chance to win a WDC anyway and so he doesn't care about burned bridges behind him.

That's a very long bow to draw there. Surely even you can't believe that.

I think you have missed the point that a part was taken off Mark's car and given to his team mate. Given your suggestion, you'd be suggesting that Mark actually gave the front wing to Seb to execute this brilliant plan of his. I think you're the one with the heavily tinted glasses on mate

I haven't missed that at all. The campaign to get maximum press impact from Horner's screw up was beautifully executed. In fact the over use of the opportunity brought some smart mind at Autosport forum to suggest that it was an opportunistic move by Webber. I can't claim the idea for myself.

He is certainly clever and tough enough do pull such an act off and tremendously enjoy it.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What "campaign"?

This is all being orchestrated by Red Bull, not Mark Webber.
Webber's conduct has been beyond reproach in this mess.

[Pup]

Well, I don't know about that. I'm on Webber's side, but they're all acting like little kids. Much like McLaren in '07. Oh, what fond memories I have...