Strange going-ons at Red Bull

[BreezyRacer]

Whats the point of reading anything DC says about Redbull, its all going to be preconceived bollocks made to put RB in good light.

+1

DC infusing himself in this argument only shows his indebtedness to the RB operation. And in DC's career he became a number 2 because of the compromises he made. Maybe Webber has already learned from DC's mistakes - er judgments.

[WhiteBlue]

The whole episode shows IMO that Webber is good spin doctoring and psyops.

[gridwalker]

Whats the point of reading anything DC says about Redbull, its all going to be preconceived bollocks made to put RB in good light.

+1

DC infusing himself in this argument only shows his indebtedness to the RB operation. And in DC's career he became a number 2 because of the compromises he made. Maybe Webber has already learned from DC's mistakes - er judgments.

Too right; DC is living with hell that is having to talk to Eddie Jordan for a living ... It is hard enough to look at EJ on TV without feeling queasy over his fashion sense; if allowing yourself to become a No. 2 leads to working with THOSE TROUSERS then I'd be signing up for the next CIA Psyops seminar

[mcdenife]

The whole episode shows IMO that Webber is good spin doctoring and psyops.

That would imply he has spun (ie interpreted) the episode to favour himself. To me it seems you are trying (and failing) to spin this in a manner unfavourable to Mark and in so doing cast Vettel as the victimised/innocent in all this. The fact is both drivers each had a new part, Vettel damages his prior to quali. So the management take the part off Marks car and put it on Vettels. Where is the spin? There can be no excuse or reason why they would do that if not to favour Vettel. There is no one outside of the RB management, Vettel and Germany who does not see just how wrong this is. I am quite sure you will be singing a different tune if this happened the other way round.

[myurr]

The whole episode shows IMO that Webber is good spin doctoring and psyops.

Whereas to the rest of the world it shows that Red Bull's management favour Vettel over Webber, are utterly incompetent and insist on lying and spinning in public.

[Mysticf1]

The whole episode shows IMO that Webber is good spin doctoring and psyops.

lol you are a funny lad WB, maybe Webber sabotaged Vettels car in the earlier races and has switched tactics to avoid suspicion.

On a serious note, i think this whole situation has the potential to give Webber that little extra push he needs, that fighting spirit Australians are famous for.

[myurr]

lol you are a funny lad WB, maybe Webber sabotaged Vettels car in the earlier races and has switched tactics to avoid suspicion.

I'm waiting for something along the lines from White Blue:

According to this German article covering an interview with Dr Marko it has now become clear that Mark Webber had actually caused the cracks in Vettel's chassis earlier in the year. The fractures within the composite formed a M W shape which can clearly be the work of only one man. Since we confiscated his hammer and chisel and gave Sebastian a new chassis the results have been clear for all to see.

To back up this fact photographic evidence has been released of Webber repairing the chassis, which he had since been given as his own, using a Pritt Stick and some sellotape.

What I find funny is that he accuses Webber of engineering this whole situation and is a master of spin when he himself was jumping up and down on this board repeating Red Bull's lies about Turkey. All those comments saying how it was all Pilbeams fault for not passing on a clear team order to Webber to let the wonder kid past.

[tok-tokkie]

Now Coulthard has given his considered opinion on the whole thing:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/15143

I read it & thought he was being reasonable and objective although his opinion is different to mine. Then the article ends with

Source Red Bull

Now I see it as more damage limitation from Red Bull & my opinion of Coulthard sinks to an even lower level. I used to think he acts like a Boy Scout but now I tend to see him as a Boy Scout. Girl Guide next?

EDIT: Later I found out that this was what Coulthard wrote in his regular Daily Telegraph column. Red Bull were merely mirroring it. http://www.crash.net/f1/news/161585/1/r ... ublic.html

SECOND EDIT: Now I read this (from the link below about Vettel's opinion):

Former driver David Coulthard, still a consultant for the energy drink owned team, agrees that Red Bull would have preferred if the matter had not gone public.

So My original uninformed opinion is confirmed.
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 7454&FS=F1

[myurr]

Now Coulthard has given his considered opinion on the whole thing:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/15143

I read it & thought he was being reasonable and objective although his opinion is different to mine. Then the article ends with

Source Red Bull

Now I see it as more damage limitation from Red Bull & my opinion of Coulthard sinks to an even lower level. I used to think he acts like a Boy Scout but now I tend to see him as a Boy Scout. Girl Guide next?

As much as that's just a Red Bull PR piece, there is one little fact slipped in there that I hadn't previously realised - that before this weekend Red Bull admit they didn't have in place it's policy of supporting the current championship points leader. So the sequence of events is now that the wing issue came up and to resolve it they decided to make it Red Bull policy to support the championship points leader - it wasn't pre-existing policy, and runs counter to the team orders supposedly given in Turkey, but made up specifically because of this wing issue.

My issue with that is that surely this would mean that Horner would have known that this new policy should have been communicated to the drivers and that by not doing so he was going to cause the next big bust up. Webber was given no reason to believe that the taking of his wing was anything other than blatant favouritism towards Vettel and his team boss didn't think it worthwhile explaining the teams new policy to him?

To me it is more likely that the wing issue came up, Horner / Newey / Marko thought that Vettel was the faster (read preferred) driver so should have the additional opportunity, and as an excuse once the flair up became public this new policy was invented to suit the circumstances. They'll find further excuses should they need to back one driver over the other in future to make sure that it's Vettel that gets the support. I wouldn't care if they didn't to Webber and the rest of the world by saying that this wasn't the case.

White Blue, you still believe this is all just a PR spin story invented by Webber?

[db__]

White Blue, you still believe this is all just a PR spin story invented by Webber?

For goodness sakes don't encourage him [-X

The think I fail to understand was Christian Horner's insistence that

"the performance difference between the two [wings] is absolutely minimal"

If there was really such an imperceptible difference between the two wings then why cause such controversy with a change which would cause more psychological than actual effect. Either CH is fundamentally incompetent at management or there was a greater performance difference and he is actually, instead, a liar.

Either way it seems that the team (not the drivers, both of whom I think are innocent in this) is doing everything in it's power to make winning either championship as difficult as possible.

[BreezyRacer]

White Blue, you still believe this is all just a PR spin story invented by Webber?

For goodness sakes don't encourage him [-X

The think I fail to understand was Christian Horner's insistence that

"the performance difference between the two [wings] is absolutely minimal"

If there was really such an imperceptible difference between the two wings then why cause such controversy with a change which would cause more psychological than actual effect. Either CH is fundamentally incompetent at management or there was a greater performance difference and he is actually, instead, a liar.

Either way it seems that the team (not the drivers, both of whom I think are innocent in this) is doing everything in it's power to make winning either championship as difficult as possible.

Well imagine yourself going thru 3 practice sessions with that wing .. setting up the balance, the weight distribution, roll stiffness, wing settings, etc and getting ready to qualify. Then someone doesn't even asks, he just comes along and takes your wing and leaves you with a wing you were not planning on using. Not only that but he gives that wing to your team mate. That is what happened.

[BreezyRacer]

Vettel speaks and says Webber should have just sucked it up and shut up ..

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 7454&FS=F1

[myurr]

Vettel speaks and says Webber should have just sucked it up and shut up ..

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 7454&FS=F1

Well hopefully we'll have a reason to see Vettel having to suck it up and shut up at the next race when Red Bull backs Webber as the championship leader.

Edit: I wonder if young Seb will have noticed the irony of him publicly speaking out against Webber publicly speaking out. Also it's surprising he didn't speak out in defence of Webber at Turkey after his team publicly spoke out against him.

[010010011010]

Of course Vettle wants him to shut up, he's the one being backed!

[BreezyRacer]

Webber whipped into shape .. "Nothing to see here .. move on sir."
http://www.markwebber.com/on-the-track- ... ll-racing/