Mark Webber has secured a solid win at Silverstone after taking the lead in the first corner of the race. Lewis Hamilton came in second, ahead of Nico Rosberg. Sebastian Vettel fell down to 7th due to a puncture, while the Ferraris were hit by extremely bad luck once more.
my previous message has been edited for quality.Giblet wrote:No need to yell. Remain civil. Wind your neck in. Relax.
I was merely pointing out that they were given advice that would have been smart to follow immediately.
They obviously should have listened to Charlie, but instead they made the wrong move and paid the price.
no i was speaking generally. I figured you're a Shumacher/vettel fan.andrew wrote:I hope you don't think I'm an Alonso fan?
Phew! Had me woried there!ringo wrote:no i was speaking generally. I figured you're a Shumacher/vettel fan.andrew wrote:I hope you don't think I'm an Alonso fan?
Hardly! This is racing, and you take any advantage that you can get! Ferrari did the right thing, and asked, within 1 sec, if it was ok. It was over 10 minutes before a penalty was announced. Ferrari REPEATIDLY asked for info, and basically were denied it. They have every right to be agrieved.Just_a_fan wrote:If Ferrari felt they needed to ask Charlie if the position had to be given back then they must have known that the 'pass' was dodgy in the first place. They should just have told Alonso to give the place back and then re-attack. After all, they've benefitted from being on the other side of this position in the past (Spa '08) so they can hardly scream about unfair it all is.
The real problem is that Alsono should have known that the pass was marginal at best and should have allowed the Renault back through. He's been in the game long enough to know that passing off track in such situations is always seen as dodgy by the stewards.
Granted, and that is what happened with Alonso. He was forced off the track by Kubica, when he was alongside. So the position that he "gained" was earned and legal. Had kubica given Alonso room of half a cars width, Alonso would stll have been ahead, coming out of the corner>Giblet wrote:Any advantage, except one that expressly forbidden in the rules perhaps. Passing off track is not allowed. There is nothing in the rules about being forced off track, then the off track gain of position is OK.
They should know the rules. You can't break one and then ask the stewards if it is ok to break the rule, that won't help anyone.
gilgen wrote:Kubica certainly was entitled to defend his position, but he forced Alonso onto the green. What did you expect Alonso to do?? Stick to his position on track and have a violent crash?? After all, they were side to side.andrew wrote:Kubica was defending his position which he is entitled to do. Alonso gained a position by going off the track. Pretty clear cut stuff - penalty was fair.
It was not a deliberate attempt to cut the corner and gain an advantage, such as Hamilton at Spa.
It also transpires that Whiting told Ferrari that the stewards would look at the matter AFTER the race!
It was pretty similar overtake, except for the fact that Hamilton gave back position and still he was penalized. :^o [-XThe penalty was not harsh, it was OK, circumstances made it harsh, bad luck. Ferrari should really keep their mouth shut, lately all they do is tarnish F1.ecapox wrote:my previous message has been edited for quality.Giblet wrote:No need to yell. Remain civil. Wind your neck in. Relax.
I was merely pointing out that they were given advice that would have been smart to follow immediately.
They obviously should have listened to Charlie, but instead they made the wrong move and paid the price.
They should have let him pass. I agree 100%. I just think the penalty was very harsh. Even more so now that the pit conversations have been posted.
=D> =D> =D>Just_a_fan wrote:Did they forget what happened to Hamilton in 2008? In that situation Hamilton returned the place in an identical situation and was still penalised for gaining an advantage.
Having benefitted from such a penalty, Ferrari must have expected the same to apply to their driver. Of course, having had the benefit of preferential treatment for years they still expect it now. At some point they'll figure it out that they need to grow up and stop 'running to sir' at the every opportunity. I'm of the opinion that they ask Charlie knowing full well that he won't be able to give a definitive instantaneous response and thus they feel that they can manipulate the result of the deliberation. After all, if they ask immediately in such a situation and it takes sufficient time for their driver to take advantage of the situation then they can moan their way out of trouble. Problem is, the system has got wise to their political games and is hitting them just as it always has everyone else. Bo**ocks to them.
I don't think you understand what Giblet is saying here. He's saying there's no rule to say your pass is legal if you get pushed (POV) off-track. Off-track pass means give position back ALWAYS.gilgen wrote:Granted, and that is what happened with Alonso. He was forced off the track by Kubica, when he was alongside. So the position that he "gained" was earned and legal. Had kubica given Alonso room of half a cars width, Alonso would stll have been ahead, coming out of the corner>Giblet wrote:Any advantage, except one that expressly forbidden in the rules perhaps. Passing off track is not allowed. There is nothing in the rules about being forced off track, then the off track gain of position is OK.
They should know the rules. You can't break one and then ask the stewards if it is ok to break the rule, that won't help anyone.
:^o [-X 
What does a precedent have to do with it? You'd not make it through law-school... :^o [-Xandrew wrote:What has Belgium 2008 or Hamilton got to do with the British GP 2010?
Hamilton got a penalty - deal with it and move on. It is irrelevant anyway as he was given the trophy at the end of the season.
It's funny when bias is mentioned above 'cos your bias is so plain for all to see you constantly have to make everything about Hamilton even though he is irrelevant to the discussion in hand, namely Alonso's penalty for an illegal pass on Kubica. I would also add that I think the rules have probably changed since 2008 so the 2 incidents are likely not comparible.
