RBR and Force India to swap engines?

[zeph]

The Red Bull car is designed around the Renault engine, so I dont see even though the mercedes engine is the best will help Red Bull much. FI has a contract for 5 yeasrs so I dont see that changing.

I don't know about that. The 2009 BrawnGP car was designed around a Honda engine, but won both titles with a shoehorned Mercedes engine.

[segedunum]

Well, there's no smoke without fire. If this McLaren 'veto' was still in play for next year then this story would never have come up. Norbert Haug then saying that he would have liked to work with RBR just muddies the waters still further. If it was untrue then there would be no reason for him to respond. Something is afoot.

Personally, I'm not sure there is a McLaren veto. The Mercedes team simply wouldn't want another team to get parity on an engine given the position that they're in.

[segedunum]

Haug's position is Vice President, Mercedes-Benz for Motorsport.

Given how precarious the Mercedes's team's position is, and Haug's, I don't take it at face value frankly.

So if Haug makes a statement about Mercedes motor sport or F1 engines you can take it to the bank.

I'm not sure I'd do that, since Haug cannot seemingly string two words of sense together, but his recent statement about wanting to work with RBR just muddies the waters still further and gives the original story a bit of credence. There was no reason for him to respond if the situation had not changed. There's a few political games going on.

[WhiteBlue]

Martin Whitmarsh was interviewed on Sky about the question of a potential veto and evaded the question three times saying that it was a non issue as long as Force India can keep their contract. The impression from this interview was very clear. At the moment McLaren will not make a statement about their potential use of a veto for the next year as there is no clear situation. They have obviously vetoed in the past and this is what Haug referred to. McLaren will probably veto again if the situation arises but they will not say so to get a better PR situation.

[segedunum]

Anyway, I dont think Merc engines in the Red Bull will happen, Newey chose the renault not for nothing and the Merc will just spoil his whole car.

Be in no doubt that this engine prodding is coming directly from Newey. He did it at Williams to Renault in the early nineties, and his prodding resulted in an unbeatable engine, and he moaned around 2002 that the Mercedes had no more power then than it did in 1998. It's how he works - he adds downforce to the car and drag is an engine problem.

He either wants a supply of Mercedes engines or he wants Renault to be allowed to significantly increase the power of their engines. I half suspect he'd like the latter to happen and keep the Renault engines if he has confidence that the power gains will happen. Red Bull are playing one off against the other. It's possible that Mercedes, and McLaren if they're involved, would rather Red Bull have Mercedes engines as opposed to Renault getting the jump on them. We've seen with Ferrari this season how much power can be gained through a few reliability changes.

[segedunum]

Another thing I found interesting was watching Coulthard's piece on racing in DTM. He raced a Mercedes in clear Red Bull overalls. It's not confirmation of anything, but these little ties have a tendency to come together.

[747heavy]

Another thing I found interesting was watching Coulthard's piece on racing in DTM. He raced a Mercedes in clear Red Bull overalls. It's not confirmation of anything, but these little ties have a tendency to come together.

Anything is possible in the world of motor racing, but Red Bull could be still a personal sponsor of Coulthard after all.
Red Bull used to have many personal sponsorship deals with a lot of drivers.
They are (used to be) a long time sponsor of Abt-Sportsline (Audi), not sure if this is going to change. Possible - but I would not read too much into Coulthard in a Red Bull overall.

[Giblet]

Isn't DC still a demo driver for Red Bulls events? Even though he is no longer their backup driver, isn't he still contracted?

[segedunum]

Even though he is no longer their backup driver, isn't he still contracted?

He is still contracted. He's their ambassador, or whatever job title he has now. Red Bull is definitely not on his overalls as a personal sponsor.

It's all a bit smoke and mirrors, but it tends to be the way these things work.

[marcush.]

RedBull do interesting things on marketing....rest assured no one has redbull cans in his hand without reason when shown on TV or in other media..i know by personal experience...

[SiLo]

I can't believe Mercedes was to supply Red Bull. I know I wouldn't want to give a faster car an even better engine that's for sure.

[747heavy]

Even though he is no longer their backup driver, isn't he still contracted?

He is still contracted. He's their ambassador, or whatever job title he has now. Red Bull is definitely not on his overalls as a personal sponsor.

It's all a bit smoke and mirrors, but it tends to be the way these things work.

How do you call a sponsor which is present on the helmet/overall of a driver but neither on the car/transporter or pit equipment?
Sorry, but I would still call that a personal sponsor - no ????

photo from the last DTM race in Zandvort.



and from Valencia earlier in the year


not that much Red Bull on that overall anyway, more on his helmet.

[aral]

Even though he is no longer their backup driver, isn't he still contracted?

He is still contracted. He's their ambassador, or whatever job title he has now. Red Bull is definitely not on his overalls as a personal sponsor.

It's all a bit smoke and mirrors, but it tends to be the way these things work.

How do you call a sponsor which is present on the helmet/overall of a driver but neither on the car/transporter or pit equipment?
Sorry, but I would still call that a personal sponsor - no ????

photo from the last DTM race in Zandvort.



and from Valencia earlier in the year


not that much Red Bull on that overall anyway, more on his helmet.

Peculiar. You attach photos from Zandvoort, and there appears to be NO sign of Red Bull,other than in his hand. You are defeating your own argument!

[747heavy]

Peculiar. You attach photos from Zandvoort, and there appears to be NO sign of Red Bull,other than in his hand. You are defeating your own argument!

So what is my argument, in your pov?

I said Red Bull is probably still a personal sponsor of D.C.
And I said, that there is not much Red Bull signage on his overall, and more on his helmet.

The argument with segedunum, was about what would you call the Red Bull sponsoring, not more and not less.

[marcush.]

the red bull bottle is a clear sign for PERSONAL SPONSOR ...Gerhard Berger was one of the first to have it...and up to his Toro Rosso involvement he never had anything more than the bottle in his hands...
saw the :`gives you wings` sticker on the visor?
comeon ..no reason to attack valued forum contributors ..