Renault R30

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
timbo
timbo
111
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Renault R30

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marcush. wrote:I agree on :R30 was one of the most interesting cars in 2010 developmentwise...it morphed almost constantly .
But to call this morphing a success is compared to Mercedes at least questionable.
The State of affairs remained like it was at the start of the season .These two cars are constantly a fair bit behind the RedBulls and can beat Mclaren or Ferrari only when those have a bad day or in the hands of the less performing driver really .
So to call the development of Renault a success and say Mercedes was a mess is just not reflecting in the relative performance of the two cars over the course of this season.
Both were never really in contention for a win speedwise and this did not change a minute till now.
I agree, although I don't see Mercedes mentioned in the last few posts, no? :D

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Renault R30

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right :mrgreen:
I dragged the W01 into my comparison because Mercedes took a lot of flak for not being able to develop their car und fit upgradés that worked.
If they are morons of development why should we applaud Renault who were behind them at the start of the season and ares till behind at the end?

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dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Renault R30

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marcush. wrote:right :mrgreen:
I dragged the W01 into my comparison because Mercedes took a lot of flak for not being able to develop their car und fit upgradés that worked.
If they are morons of development why should we applaud Renault who were behind them at the start of the season and ares till behind at the end?
Good point. I think Merc had some teething issues with some developments mid-season and Renault made a pretty big leap around the same time. Merc made a pretty sizeable step at the start of the season and has jumped Renault again once the updates were all ironed out. Lack of testing really hurt some teams this year.
Honda!

netoperek
netoperek
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Joined: 21 Sep 2010, 23:06

Re: Renault R30

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Renault was said to be much underprepared at the begining of the season, even though RK had some really good results. They would be easily better than Merc for most of the season if it wasn't for Petrov. Kubica was always in touch with Rosberg and better than Shoemi, so it is not like Mercedes kicked Renault's ass badly :mrgreen: And remember that Merc = Brawn and BrawnGP was the title holder before this sunday, so staying relativly close performance-wise to them, proved RenaultF1 great performance rate.

madly
madly
6
Joined: 11 Feb 2010, 23:20

Re: Renault R30

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OK, shortly it should be created R31 topic, but how to call them, it's unknown at this time ;-)

Lets summarise what changes in R31:
- new gearbox allowing pull-rod suspension )ot\s developed, so Lotus buyed Red Bulls gearboxes),
- pull rod suspension,
- KERS probably from Magneti Marelli,
- something else?

The question is: Will R31 chassis an evolution of R29-R30 base or a brand new chassis?

Neno
Neno
-29
Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:41

Re: Renault R30

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madly wrote:OK, shortly it should be created R31 topic, but how to call them, it's unknown at this time ;-)

Lets summarise what changes in R31:
- new gearbox allowing pull-rod suspension )ot\s developed, so Lotus buyed Red Bulls gearboxes),
- pull rod suspension,
- KERS probably from Magneti Marelli,
- something else?

The question is: Will R31 chassis an evolution of R29-R30 base or a brand new chassis?
I think will se new chassis! R29 sucks completly! R31 will be great car for sure. New chassis, new tire, KERS, flex front wings... To many changes. KERS with double floor and exaust sistem, new evolution aerodynamic. Renault knew have great aerodynamics. All parts are put on the R30 have worked properly and i think all parts of R31 will work as expected!

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Blackout
1563
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Renault R30

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Renault can't win races in 2010 after ending 8th in the previous season with a Crashgate, a demoralized team, an obsolete windtunnel and an empty CFD center...

The team needed to be restructured and that's what Renault did this season. This season is a transition season and the R30 is technically a transition car based on the R29. You should read Boullier's and Kubica's last interviews.

This amazing development rate of Renault this year shows, at least, three things...

-Renault is really aiming to be back on the top : the motivation is there
-Renault still knows how to develop a car and make it fast even with 'little' resources: the competences are there.
-Renault have the tools to make a fast car again. The windtunnel is finally reliable and the CFD operational and precise.

95% of evolutions worked immediately according to Boullier. And some of them have been copied by top teams.
This year's evolutions on the R30 were not only numerous but some of them were also original and ingenious (the FW, the Splitter, the F-duct, the diffuser...)


I made this modest analyse/bilan that shows why is the R30 a transistion car and why the R31 must very different:


The biggest differences between the R30 and it's predecessor are obviously the DDD and the way R30's radiators are placed...

R30/R29 (painted) sidepods:

Image

The R29 has, paradoxically, a more sculpted sidepods, they coat the radiators and the exhausts better at the bottom...

But if we take a look inside these two cars, we can understands why...

R30:
Image

Renault's R30 fuel tank has been more widened than lengthened to accommodate more fuel in the R30, and the engine has been pulled back a little bit, which has created extra space in the sidepods. Two small radiators have taken place in each of these areas. They certainly belong to the Gbox. They are usually placed in the rear, above the Gbox but Renault moved them to the sidepods because Rear suspension's rockers, dampers and inerter etc. took place on the front of the Gbox (in order to free the space for the diffuser's supplementary channels); that means the rear suspensions took radiator's place.

A merc Gbox with its Radiator and suspension components:
Image

Renault Gbox:
http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/191/[/url]

with DDD's channels and the suspension's mechanism fully mounted:

Image

But that's not the only reason.... The spindles that attach the floor to the tube take more place between the secondary radiators and the exhausts in the R30. They are better integrated into the R29, but in the R30, they block the way for the sidepods, sacrificing valuable space on the floor...

(A comparison between the R30 and the 29)

Image

The R29 (painted like the R30):

Image

In 2011, as you know, the DDD and it's channels will be removed, the Gbox will be a complete new one with pull rods, according to some sources, and the oil radiators will take place in the back of the car, I think and the R31 will certainly get much tighter side pods and rear end :p , and that's very important...

Rear-end; a comparison between the R30 and the RB5:
Image

and where DDD channels are located:

Image

Only imagine... :p


Renault's 2010 season is certainly very satisfying, despite the fact that Renault is only 4th force and despite the fact that teams witch were close to Renault in 2009 (Ferrari and McLaren in the beginning), are 'far' ahead in 2010 ... why ? there are many reasons to that.

These teams have not faced the big problems that Renault faced in 2009. Renault was really tired and ill during 2009 and till the end. To stand up again, Renault had to restructure the house and make the 2010 car with the existing tools...
As Result, we have an R30 which resembles to the R29 ... more monstrous and aggressively developed.

The main reason for the limited progress of Renault in 2010 is clearly here; they took the R29 as a basis, kept a similar 'body' (in shape and dimensions) in order to avoid overspending and reworking the rigidity of the car, and at the same time keeping the weight as low as possible. Renault has therefore preferred to spare money and save time. This is what we see when we analyse the R30 and its organes closely.

The Double diffuser explains a lot too.

This year, we saw different aero philosophies. The F10 and RB6 have a totally opposite philosophy if compared to the R30. The McLaren is like a mix of both philosophies.

The the F10 and the R30 generate downforce differently. The F10, is rather conventional; it uses a long and spacious floor and very sculpted side pods at their bottom bottom and rear in order to exploit the air that passes over the floor as much as possible. This air passes over the floor and with the help of gurney flaps helps to extract the air passing underneath the car. Ferrari has deliberately stretched his car, but opted for a small diffuser with a relatively smooth angle of extraction. Like Red Bull.

The R30 is the extreme opposite.

Considering that Renault has done everything to keep its car short, the sidepods are obese (because of the 4 radiators and the widened -instead of stretched- fuel tank), and the floor short. And because of the two additional
channels of the diffuser, the rear end is fat and the floor not very spacefull. The R30 uses its diffuser very differently; that monster diffuser extracts the air flowing under the floor, using its two steep angled channels with a higher speed. That's why the Renault front wing is very complex; it aims to over-feed the ground effect and the monster diffuser, while the F10 has a simple 'FW'.


All I'm saying is that Renault had constraints, the team had to use a known basis, which is the R29, and that its design has strengths and weaknesses witch Renault knew from the beginning. We can also conclude that the three top teams have chosen a better solution, but to implement it, two of them started from a white sheet, have worked more and have spent more money...


the R31 will certainly have completely new design that is very similar to the F10 and RB5/RB6, not only because of the abolition of DDD but also thanks to the stability and the extra time and money available for the 2011 program.


My sources: interviews from Patrick Head and Willy Rampf, Scarb's articles and hundreds of photos on the R30, the R29 and their competitors :p
And it's my own opinion. All I said is not necessarily true :mrgreen:

Neno
Neno
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Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:41

Re: Renault R30

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Bravo, bravo! =D> =D> =D>

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PaulB
72
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 09:52
Location: Graz/Austria

Re: Renault R30

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Neno wrote:Bravo, bravo! =D> =D> =D>
the only thing i can say!
Thanks!
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose!" - Ayrton Senna

Paul Bischof
Milton Keynes, UK
MK2 2HL
http://paulsf1.wordpress.com/

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Renault R30

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madly wrote:OK, shortly it should be created R31 topic, but how to call them, it's unknown at this time ;-)

Lets summarise what changes in R31:
- new gearbox allowing pull-rod suspension )ot\s developed, so Lotus buyed Red Bulls gearboxes),
- pull rod suspension,
- KERS probably from Magneti Marelli,
- something else?

The question is: Will R31 chassis an evolution of R29-R30 base or a brand new chassis?
The biggest question is how will Pirelli do for Renault? Remember they struggled with the initial change to slicks, and also struggled on the Michelin-Bridgestone transition
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

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Blackout
1563
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Renault R30

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Thanks.
raymondu999 wrote:
madly wrote:OK, shortly it should be created R31 topic, but how to call them, it's unknown at this time ;-)

Lets summarise what changes in R31:
- new gearbox allowing pull-rod suspension )ot\s developed, so Lotus buyed Red Bulls gearboxes),
- pull rod suspension,
- KERS probably from Magneti Marelli,
- something else?

The question is: Will R31 chassis an evolution of R29-R30 base or a brand new chassis?
The biggest question is how will Pirelli do for Renault? Remember they struggled with the initial change to slicks, and also struggled on the Michelin-Bridgestone transition

In 2007, the main reason of the struggle, according to Pat Symonds and Bob Bell, was the fact that Renault adopted a 'non adequate' weight/and downforce distribution to accommodate the tires change, according to Symonds and Bell... The R27 needed more ballast and more downforce on the front tires. Renault even projected to modify the wheelbase... Just as Mercedes this year.

BUT next year, a mandatory weight distribution is planned so Renault wont face the same problem again.

They also said in 2007, that they discovered the windtunnel had some weaknesses ... since 2006 !!!

They say they understood the problems lately in 2007 and that that affected next year's car development,; the R28. But don't forget that car won 2 races in the and of the season and was the 3rd fastest car.

Arunas
Arunas
4
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 22:14

Re: Renault R30

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They are so serious? Really?
For me current Renault F1 team looks very similar to RB (in terms of approach to F1 as purely marketing tool) . Main difference is Adrian N. (that means cornerstone is missing). Are they capable to compete at top level without having same level of talent in itself? Days of smartie Flavio, Michelin special tyres and hungry young gun Fernando are long time gone. I rate Robert K. very high, just him alone is not enough to seriously think about WDC. We can spent hours arguing about R31 possible advantages, just in March 2011 we will meet at the same place - fighting with Rob against NR and MS. Time is just cruel, Michael will sometimes be on top of Renault 2-nd driver :lol:

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Renault R30

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Image

I was always told the farmost upper deck was voor cooling, but imo here it tells something else, it's angle is really, really steep.

@Blackout; Your post simply is incredible, and i havent even read it in its whole. A great overlook of the car i can tell!
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Neno
Neno
-29
Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:41

Re: Renault R30

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only i can say is R31 will be (100%) faster then R30! Renault plans a major development of its R31. this car (R30) is upgrade from R29 (one of two slowest car in history od Renault - second one is R27) and and looks solid. you can only imagine what will be new car when you are done correctly from the beginning.

korzeniow
korzeniow
24
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 03:51
Location: Cracow/Poland

Re: Renault R30

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@Neno, did you forget about ban on DDD and on F-Duct?
It's been a long time since we drove last time, but it has also been a short time at the same time
Roam Grosjean ponders the passing of time on the first day of testing at Jerez
February 5, 2013