Nobody seems too excited over Vettel winning the WDC

[Ciro Pabón]

Vettel clumsy? So, what hope there is for me?

Now, have the critics ever driven a powerful car? I mean, the ones that over steer on the exit when you push the throttle...

I had no idea that this forum had become the home of so many judgments, beacons of light in a universe of racing darkness, posts written evidently by experts in racing, posts that show clumsy drivers, in a clear, pedagogical and comprehensive manner, clumsy drivers like the WORLD drivers champion, what to do in a particular situation.

All of those posts are indubitably welcome, because the racing experience of the authors distills in, oh, so many ways in them... incisive and sapient they are.

A point I have to share: are those posts technically sound? Our answer is a resounding YES. A person that gives lesson to Vettel about how to avoid mistakes that caused him to miss a racing win is daring, experienced and humble. He has to be all of that and more. I'm happy and proud at my new companions, whose influence I missed because of a forced leave of absence. If I knew that so many racers were to be here, I wouldn't had had it.

I find inspiring the comments that make clear some fine points in racing, source of confusion for many of us. For example, I guess Vettel has no idea that you cannot turn left when you have a car on your left. Good point. On the other hand, trifling considerations, like the one that states that some cars are very hard to control (unless you use a Wii to control them, that is) are unimportant.

Thank heavens some of those posts show confidence in Vettel's improvement next year. I guess he'll have to win TWO WDCs to improve, if you think about it for a moment.

Now, I finally understood why the WDC should be discarded. It brings so many inconveniences! Like having a holder of the title, for example. We could get rid of so many uncomfortable things, like podiums, champagne and the need to recognize that some people could know more about racing than us.

Oldies like me, immersed in boring traditions could find that an insult to the history of racing, but after some thought, we are transformed and enlightened. I'm still considering what would be the best way to show our appreciation for innovative proposals like that.

After all, what's an individual today? Are we going to care about people? No, of course, not, we're above that: we should appreciate corporations in all the glory they have earned and deserve and force the drivers to compete anonymously. They are rewarded more than enough by money, the fame should go to the true source of it: the brand. It's the brand the one that deserves our loyalty and we can show it by buying the moderately priced products they sell us.

So, inspired by so many wise posts, I would like go further. Why be in fear of the brilliant future of racing those new commentaries point to? So, I propose to eliminate racing entirely. We should do a comparison of the designs, attribute all tuning to the parts each team bought and treat this as a mechanical engineering championship. What if we call it the SAE championship?

Actually, what if we simulate the races? I've finally understood, thanks to the posts in this thread, that it wouldn't make an iota of difference in the final results.

Thanks, guys, now that I'm back, I'm eager to learn. Please, keep the posts running. I feel so excited about them I can hardly control myself. Thanks, thanks.

Finally, a much deserved apology: I'm truly sorry for taking away precious server space that should be occupied by those commentaries that transfixed my mind. Keep the good work! I cannot wait to read more of the same.

[jamsbong]

OK... Sorry to say that he had been clumsy. What I mean by being clumsy is that he sometimes make mistakes. which is the same as to say, Alonso jumped started in China (so Alonso was clumsy in that occasion). Schumacher got a black flag in 1994 which caused him to be disqualified from the next race. Or Hamilton had 2 DNFs.

I do not mean at all that Vettel is clumsy all the time. In fact, I'm a big fan of Vettel (honestly I am). However, I was trying to point out that everyone makes mistakes occasionally and there is not point re-emphasising over and over again about one particular mistake.

[Raptor22]

=D> ciro


its all too easy to judge from the airchair without ever having driven a car or kart with open wheels at over a 100mph.

=D> Those with no racing experience will take the Webber side in Turkey. Those with racing expereince who know the values of racing and what is expectred and proper behaviour when overtaken will taken will side with the Vettel camp in Turkey. Its as simple as that.
When space is limited, running into another car happens quicker that the blink of an eye. I have had a competitor squeeze my rear wheel going into a corner in Formula K125. I thought I was clear. No time to check the blind spot... You're clear, you have the line, you expect the co-operation of the driver being passed. His answer was too limitthe room I has to turn.
A legitimate racing tactic? Perhaps and some will argue it. I spun off and injured my wrist against the straw bales, ****head went on the finish the race. My race ruined, his not. So does the outcome justify the means?

Its a similkar tactic Webber used on Vettel in Turkey. Don't move, he will have to run into me to make the corner. Problem is with Webber's thinking is that if Vettel has made it to the corner they would both have been out.


Vettel has been clumsy on occasion, Spa a case in point, but to blame him for Turkey, is ludicrous and screams of double standards. What Vettel did was called racing. He won the corner and was correct in expecting the co-operation of his team mate.

What this season has shown is that Webber is fast and always has been, but he is an intensely political person if not very smart about hbis politics.

I enjoyed Vettels attitude all year. He shoed passion, dealt with pressure and rose to the occasion.Thats why he is Welt Meister.

Vettel clearly learned from Turkey that he cannot rely on his team mate for fair play and he altered the way he dealt with him on and off the track. But he never bad mouthed him. All the bad mouthing and political intrigue was supplied by Mr Webber.

[Gerhard Berger]

=D> ciro


its all too easy to judge from the airchair without ever having driven a car or kart with open wheels at over a 100mph.

I assume the large majority on this forum have never drive an F1 car. Doesn't mean we can't debate about F1. That is the point of this forum after all.

=D> Those with no racing experience will take the Webber side in Turkey. Those with racing expereince who know the values of racing and what is expectred and proper behaviour when overtaken will taken will side with the Vettel camp in Turkey. Its as simple as that.

Complete rubbish. Let's take a look at what an experienced former F1 driver had to say about the incident; Martin Brundle has always maintained that Vettel was at fault for this incident, quite simply because he turned right, into Webber. Please don't spout patronising rubbish like that again.

Its a similkar tactic Webber used on Vettel in Turkey. Don't move, he will have to run into me to make the corner. Problem is with Webber's thinking is that if Vettel has made it to the corner they would both have been out.

Vettel didn't HAVE to run into Webber to make the corner. If Vettel had made it to the corner (instead of steering right, into Webber) his exit would have been compromised since he would have taken such a tight line for entry. Webber might have been able to cut back inside on the exit and re pass Vettel. I don't think they would have both been out unless Vettel completely missed his braking point.

Vettel has been clumsy on occasion, Spa a case in point, but to blame him for Turkey, is ludicrous and screams of double standards. What Vettel did was called racing. He won the corner and was correct in expecting the co-operation of his team mate.

They hadn't reached the corner yet. I'm still not sure why you think Webber was obliged to give Vettel more room. Please take into consideration that they were racing hard for position. Webber cooperated and gave Vettel enough room, but he is not exactly going to make it easy for him to pass. He was hard but fair.

[raymondu999]

Bravo Raptor and Ciro for your posts. Bravo. Regarding the others, let's start talking about how people felt about him being WDC rather than rumble on about something that has been debated for ages.

[jamsbong]

Oh thank you, Raymond999, Raptor and Ciro.

Fellow F1 enthusiast. please stay on topic. If you want to discuss about turkey, spa issue. Goto the thread that is appropriate (i.e. not this one).

[Dragonfly]

Raptor22
Very well said.
Problem with Webber in Turkey is he knew he had to concede but decided to "teach" the youngster a lesson (IMHO). And the end result was in tears.

[Tamburello]

=D> ciro


its all too easy to judge from the airchair without ever having driven a car or kart with open wheels at over a 100mph.

Even with your stupendous racing experience, you are way off the mark. Vettel did not 'win the corner'; all he did was have the inside line and barely half a car length advantage. If you call that 'clearing' you must be a bad racer. They weren't even in the breaking zone, ffs, when Vettel turned into Webber.

[Tamburello]

Ciro, with all due respect, your sarcasm and unbridled and uncritical admiration for Vettel is wearing thin. If you don't think mere mortals are fit to discuss motor racing, only to worship it, I wonder what you are doing here writing essay length posts.

Please don't sully your good writings with patronising crap like in your last post.

p.s. Hamilton (okay granted he's dirty b**tard racer himself) thinks Vettel was at fault for turning into Webber. Now who to believe?

[andrew]

.....

are we going to restart this Turkey discussion again? Personally, I can't wait to see him get another WDC. Usually, the first WDC is somewhat clumsy. Is like Schumacher, his 1994 WDC was a close fight and he had many bad decisions like getting a black flag and disqualification. He was definitely fast but "clumsy". Then comes 1995, he demonstrated that he is the maestro that we all know all too well.

I know there will be strong contenders next year just like this year so I am not expecting Vettel to dominate under such environment. But I believe he won't be as "clumsy". Lets see what happens... Can't wait though.

The "bad" decision in 1994 was in Adelaide, though that all turned out good. The black flag disqualification was due to a brake test by Hill and the car being too low (teams fault) at Spa. I remember Schumacher driving a pretty good season that was not clumsy at all.

[jamsbong]

Oh ya, speaking of Vettel. Have you seen the onboard footage when he qualifies? He looks like he is possessed with demonic reflexes and speed. It is amazing to see that he can push the car so hard without spinning or making errors (so that he gets the pole position).

[Gerhard Berger]

.....

are we going to restart this Turkey discussion again? Personally, I can't wait to see him get another WDC. Usually, the first WDC is somewhat clumsy. Is like Schumacher, his 1994 WDC was a close fight and he had many bad decisions like getting a black flag and disqualification. He was definitely fast but "clumsy". Then comes 1995, he demonstrated that he is the maestro that we all know all too well.

I know there will be strong contenders next year just like this year so I am not expecting Vettel to dominate under such environment. But I believe he won't be as "clumsy". Lets see what happens... Can't wait though.

The "bad" decision in 1994 was in Adelaide, though that all turned out good. The black flag disqualification was due to a brake test by Hill and the car being too low (teams fault) at Spa. I remember Schumacher driving a pretty good season that was not clumsy at all.

Schumacher was brilliant in 94. It would have been a travesty had Hill won. Hill only managed to get so close to him because of the extremely harsh bans that were imposed on Schumacher during the season.

The incident with Hill on the formation lap at Silverstone was ridiculous. The stewards made a massive deal of it. I remember Schumacher also passed Senna on the formation lap at Interlagos, and that is hardly ever mentioned in race reports.

[WhiteBlue]

This whole thread is ignoring the obvious excitement that has swept through the German speaking nations since Sebastian Vettel clinched the F1 world championship. He was celebrated by more than 80,000 compatriots who turned out at freezing temperatures to hail his achievements under the symbol of German victory, the Brandenburger Tor in Berlin. This is the equivalent of a confetti parade in New York, on the Champs Elysee in Paris or Trafalgar square in London. You do get those for doing a particularly outstanding job. The celebrations were followed up by more than 120,000 people visiting the race of champions in Düsseldorf during the weekend where they continued to cheer Sebastian at every appearance. He demonstrated his winning car two times during this weekend and was cheered by 200,000 people attending those events life. He appeared on the national television sport shows and received standing ovations there as well. I do not know how some people measure excitement. I honestly did not expect people in Britain, Spain, Australia and Italy to get as excited as they would get if their national contenders had beaten Seb. So the bottom line is: The excitement matches expectations and in some countries exceeds it considerably.

[raymondu999]

Was it his winning car? Looked like an RB5 to me :s

[andrew]

This whole thread is ignoring the obvious excitement that has swept through the German speaking nations...

Ah the German speaking fellow Scot! It's not just the German speaking nations that are excited. Supporting a driver or team is not restricted to blind patriotism.