Honda RA806E

[manchild]

Very strange looking valvetrain and ignition cover

Looks as if there are no cams at all

[Scuderia_Russ]

The manifold isn't on it.

[scarbs]

Don’t forget the engines have to meet a minimum CofG height this year, so there has been extra material incorporated into the heads to raise it up and make the load path twixt monocoque\gearbox stronger. The cams are there, you can see two covers a few inches down the front face of the engine.

Up until now the teams have shrunkwrapped the castings around the internals real tight. That way you can see how the heads and cams are positioned. In this sense the rule is negative thing for us techies.

[manchild]

I agree but compared to same parts on engines of Renault, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes it looks different.

[DaveKillens]

After being used to the 72 degree v-10, the 90 degree V-8 appears very wide. It just takes getting used to. The exhausts have little stub pipes in the picture, not used in real life, just there for cosmetics.
The cam covers are really beefed up, as mentioned, to help raise the center of gravity of the engine. The attachment points are spaced further apart, all contributing to a stouter connection etween the chassis and rear suspension. I guess with the added vibration we have heard about, they will need it.

[Principessa]

I agree but compared to same parts on engines of Renault, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes it looks different.

I think so too...if you watch the pictures of the BMW engine in this topic viewtopic.php?t=2017
I think it looks a lot different. It could also just be me

Perhaps this is the secret of Honda and how come they were so fast during pre-season testing!!

[manchild]

I'm aware of center of gravity issue but why would than Honda use CF for trumpets and some other elemeths between the cylinders and at the top of the engine?

It would be definitely better to make these CF elements that are close to centerline out of some heavy material than to add weight sideways from centerline especially at the rear end of the engine and ruin handling of the car. That is why I think that there is more to it than weight/cog thing.

[ginsu]

To me, it looks like Honda added weight where it was needed most (i.e. chassis/tub & transmission mounting points). They added a large degree of webbing across the the valve covers to properly triangulate the mounting points. You can also see that the webbing on the front of the engine's upper mount points is greater than on the rear.

the torsional stiffness figures must be much higher for this engine than the v10 because of these reinforcements and the shorter engine length. the mount points making more of a cube than a 'plank' type shape in the v10. the torsional stiffness increases considerably when the length, width, and height of all the load points are equal distance apart.

it must be interesting working with the 90 degree v8. everything is coming off at a 45 degree angle to the horizontal. i'm sure that makes some of the calculations alot easier. especially the vibration calculations as, tan 45 = 1

Up until now the teams have shrunkwrapped the castings around the internals real tight. That way you can see how the heads and cams are positioned. In this sense the rule is negative thing for us techies.

I agree completely. Although, I guess it does make it easier for an independent team to develop an engine. I get so torn about the regulations. I'm glad I'm not the one making them.

[manchild]

To me, it looks like Honda added weight where it was needed most (i.e. chassis/tub & transmission mounting points).

Since when are gearbox mounting points on top of the valvetrain/cams cover?



Compare it with any other 2006 V8 enine and you'll see what I'm trying to point out.

[ginsu]

Since when are gearbox mounting points on top of the valvetrain/cams cover?

Technically, you're right. The area above the transmission usually houses hydraulics and sensors, with the pushrods mounted on top; this is often a carbon fiber housing bolted to the transmission casing to form a single rigid member. This assembly then bolts to the engine via studs/bolts on the cam cover and below the rear main seal. Arranging it that way maximizes the distance of the mounting points, thus contributing to greater rigidity in both torsion and bending. There could also be some axial loads generated through the damper's mounting points.

[Scuderia_Russ]

Haven't they suffered block flex issues over the last few years?

[manchild]

Pic of Honda V10... Now I dare to guess that shape of V8 has nothing to do with COG since on V10 there was no min. COG imposed by FIA.

[Reca]

Since when are gearbox mounting points on top of the valvetrain/cams cover?

Since the dimensions of the engine, particularly the height of the head, are so limited that you can’t further move the gearbox mounting points without suffering bending and torsional issues. That was more than 10 years ago.
To be honest, I see nothing strange with that Honda engine, to have the mounting points on the valve cover is pretty standard, then since the head is very low it needs protuberances to put mounting points on favourable position on both sides, for chassis and gearbox.

In Renault case (and on the RB2) there are two rods running from the rear edge of the tub to the gearbox, at the sides of the airbox, since a few years now. You could say that engine is a semi-stressed member in that case. Anyway the mounting points for gearbox are visible on the valve cover of the RS25.

[manchild]

Since when are gearbox mounting points on top of the valvetrain/cams cover?

Since the dimensions of the engine, particularly the height of the head, are so limited that you can’t further move the gearbox mounting points without suffering bending and torsional issues. That was more than 10 years ago.
To be honest, I see nothing strange with that Honda engine, to have the mounting points on the valve cover is pretty standard, then since the head is very low it needs protuberances to put mounting points on favourable position on both sides, for chassis and gearbox.

In Renault case (and on the RB2) there are two rods running from the rear edge of the tub to the gearbox, at the sides of the airbox, since a few years now. You could say that engine is a semi-stressed member in that case. Anyway the mounting points for gearbox are visible on the valve cover of the RS25.

Renault's gearbox is not attached on valve cover but on cylinder heads (at least it was like that on R24/R25). Also, rods are not connected to gearbox but to engine.




Finally the R26 where you can see those shiny covers on rear end of cam axles which confirms what I said before.

[Reca]

[IMG:152:130]http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/1275/r ... 0fb.th.jpg[/img]

Red is the mount of the gearbox on the valve cover.
Yellow you can see the difference between the valve cover (darker gray) and the cylinder head (lighter gray), on the picture you posted it’s a fake engine, the valve cover appears to be in single piece with cylinder head, it’s very likely made in resin via rapid prototyping and painted to look like it was real.
Green is where the carbon rod mounts on the gearbox.
Here the R26 gearbox :
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/200 ... p-0030.jpg
where you can see the mount more clearly.
Here a pic of the R25 gearbox showing the same mounts (sorry for the quality but I had to resize it):
[IMG:152:142]http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8841 ... 5yg.th.jpg[/img]

Of the RB2 I can’t show you a pic because I saw it in a magazine and I don’t have it here. As far as I remember the rod is attached further back compared with Renault, it’s pretty much under the rocker arm.

BTW, in previous post RS25 was a typo, I meant RS26.

At the end here the Ferrari 046, 1996 engine, already with mounting points on the valve cover, but I’ve seen older engines with a similar solution :
[IMG:152:130]http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/761/0466ab.th.jpg[/img]