Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

[myurr]

@Jimi_Hendrix_1967 - Got a source for that?

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

Its in the fia sporting regulations somewhere. When I get home ill try and get an exact quote.

[Shrieker]

[cry baby rant /start] The FIA are showing favouritism to Red Bull . First the flexing front wing, and now this. Rules are rules. The rule says no flex, and it's obvious Red Bull's fw does indeed flex by a fair margin, there are easy ways to prevent this kind of thing but the FIA decides to turn a blind eye instead. Which was the same for Vettel's overtake. The rule says "at least one wheel inside the white line". So why was no action taken against it, despite the rules being strengthened just to prevent this kind of event happening? The FIA are a total joke. For once I agree with Mr. E. http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=43130

[cry baby rant /over]

[Pandamasque]

Forget about rules for a second.

Well that's exactly what the stewards did! But that is WRONG.
And yes, Button is a kindhearted fella

@Shrieker
Correction: not "at least 1 wheel" but any part of the car. But it doesn't change anything in this case.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Vettel was clearly ahead of Hamilton. Had he taken a tighter line to make the corner, Hamilton would be without front wing. As he had the higher ground, he is entitled to run off if there is the chance of a collision. Which had he made the corner or cut off Lewis nose there no doubt would have been.
So there are 2 ways of looking at this, and in my view there is nothing doing.

Had the FIA penalised Vettel, it would have been a bad day for racing.

[CHT]

Button took a big short cut to gain position and while Vettel overtake button after running wide.

That look pretty straight forward to me.

[Shrieker]

Vettel was clearly ahead of Hamilton. Had he taken a tighter line to make the corner, Hamilton would be without front wing. As he had the higher ground, he is entitled to run off if there is the chance of a collision. Which had he made the corner or cut off Lewis nose there no doubt would have been.
So there are 2 ways of looking at this, and in my view there is nothing doing.

Had the FIA penalised Vettel, it would have been a bad day for racing.

Good example of selective cognition ? Hamilton involved --> "If Vettel can't succeed, it will benefit Hamilton". So that's why you typed 'Hamilton' instead of 'Button'. And that's assuming you actually watched the race.

[myurr]

Vettel was clearly ahead of Hamilton. Had he taken a tighter line to make the corner, Hamilton would be without front wing. As he had the higher ground, he is entitled to run off if there is the chance of a collision. Which had he made the corner or cut off Lewis nose there no doubt would have been.
So there are 2 ways of looking at this, and in my view there is nothing doing.

Had the FIA penalised Vettel, it would have been a bad day for racing.

Who mentioned Hamilton? But even ignoring that mistake there's a glaring hole in your argument. Was Vettel clearly ahead, or was he in danger of collision? If there was danger of collision then Vettel hadn't completed the overtake, if he was clear then he had no need to go wide unless he had carried too much speed into the corner and was therefore gaining an unfair advantage.

Don't get me wrong, as I stated before I don't want to see Vettel punished. I just want the rules to be applied consistently, for drivers to stick within the race track rather than sometimes being allowed to run wide sometimes not, and for the stupid fanbois to stop saying that only Hamilton gets away with this kind of thing and crying blue murder for ever perceived transgression (blocking in free practice, wear on the plank, touching the plank whilst in parc ferme, etc.).

In general the FIA has been much more relaxed about minor transgressions across the board where drivers don't gain any advantage. I personally think this is a good thing, but feel that they should make more use of warnings for technical transgressions and punish repeat offences. Vettel should have been warned in this instance and all drivers reminded not to run off circuit during an overtake.

[myurr]

Button took a big short cut to gain position and while Vettel overtake button after running wide.

That look pretty straight forward to me.

There's a big difference between running wide and losing time and running wide on the corner exit and gaining an advantage. Vettel gained three or four car lengths by carrying more speed and extending the corner. Straight forward advantage by running off track.

[Rob W]

There's a big difference between running wide and losing time and running wide on the corner exit and gaining an advantage. Vettel gained three or four car lengths by carrying more speed and extending the corner. Straight forward advantage by running off track.

Nicely put.

The rules regarding stating on the track don't allow running wide. As you say, running wide at that corner is an advantage without doubt.

As far as I'm concerned the lines dictating the boundaries of a track are there for a reason. The parts outside those lines are for when you have no choice but to drive there - accident, shunt etc., not for passing.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

My enthusiasm got the better of me, yes Button. Its not like Hamilton to get overtaken....
It doesnt matter who was driving, Vettel is the main talking point and while the detail of who the trailing driver was innaccurate(again my sincerest apologies for having made the error), there is no way what Vettel should be penalised.
Barrichello's launch up the inside of Rosberg warranted penalty, Buttons move on Massa while similar on the face of it to Vettel's, the fact remains the guy wasnt ahead of Massa before his manouvre, and he ended up ahead because of it.

Crying that Vettel should have got a penalty smacks of sour grapes. I hate the finger, but I wouldnt let it cloud my judgement to the point of calling it FIA favouritism to Red Bull, because that is just a joke.

Looking at the entry of turn 4 Vettel was ahead, had he slowed or gone for a tighter apex line, Im certain Button would have lost a front wing, let alone the damage to Vettels car/race. If its viewed as collision avoidance, then you can see exactly why nothing was done.

And what choice did Vettel have running wide? Look and see the position

[myurr]

It doesnt matter who was driving, Vettel is the main talking point and while the detail of who the trailing driver was innaccurate(again my sincerest apologies for having made the error), there is no way what Vettel should be penalised.
Barrichello's launch up the inside of Rosberg warranted penalty, Buttons move on Massa while similar on the face of it to Vettel's, the fact remains the guy wasnt ahead of Massa before his manouvre, and he ended up ahead because of it.

Crying that Vettel should have got a penalty smacks of sour grapes. I hate the finger, but I wouldnt let it cloud my judgement to the point of calling it FIA favouritism to Red Bull, because that is just a joke.

I didn't say that he should be penalised. Maybe re-read my post?

Looking at the entry of turn 4 Vettel was ahead, had he slowed or gone for a tighter apex line, Im certain Button would have lost a front wing, let alone the damage to Vettels car/race. If its viewed as collision avoidance, then you can see exactly why nothing was done.

And what choice did Vettel have running wide? Look and see the position

He was only ahead because he didn't slow down for the corner. He was side by side at the braking point and took advantage of missing the corner. Almost exactly the same as Button's earlier overtake on Massa, except Button saved distance Vettel carried extra speed.

I don't think that Vettel shouldn't have been penalised, but then Button shouldn't have either if they're going to let this kind of thing slide.

[Hangaku]

Just for people's information, the outside line of a corner is not by default the slowest line. It's a well know fact that the fastest route is in a straight line.

If the outside line (as shown in Vettel's case above) is the intended route, it means you can brake later and turn the steering wheel less, meaning your corner exit speed is going to be much faster than the guy braking earlier, and turning more.

Therefore, there should not be (and indeed, there isn't in terms of the rule book) any allowance for overtaking outside of the white line, when it's the outside of a corner.

[Hangaku]

Looking at the entry of turn 4 Vettel was ahead, had he slowed or gone for a tighter apex line, Im certain Button would have lost a front wing, let alone the damage to Vettels car/race. If its viewed as collision avoidance, then you can see exactly why nothing was done.

And what choice did Vettel have running wide? Look and see the position

Just because a driver is ahead, it doesn't mean they are allowed to exit the circuit to take a faster route out of a corner. What he SHOULD have done, is keep his car inside the white lines, while avoiding Button. Flooring it out of a corner, while off the track, is not collision avoidance.

[andrew]

If I'm looking at this correctly no one is off the track here. The edge of the track is defined by the white line at the edge of the tarmac and the green stuff.

The edge of the track on the left is defined as the red and white kerb which I have highlighted with a red line here:



Button went down the escape road bypassing the chicane completely, he took a short cut and did not give up the position he gained as a result, so the penalty was deserved, it was not like he even just ran wide over the kerbs, he cleanly turned in early and too the shortcut.

Thank, I was completely disorientated there and got the wrong corner!