Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

[Richard]

I can't see a problem with it. That's the quirk of these historic tracks. At other tracks they put in polystyrene barriers to block run off areas. They didn't here, so it's fair game. We saw most cars with 4 wheels outside the line in quali and their times were not disputed.

Just wait till we get to Spa and see who repeats Kimi's rally excursion!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ Myurr

I wasnt directing the post at you.

+1 richard

[myurr]

Just wait till we get to Spa and see who repeats Kimi's rally excursion!

I shall also be watching turn one of Spa with interest!

[Tamburello]

Vettel was consistently around 3-4 tenths faster over the rest of the field in sector 3 so he was definitely going more quickly than any other car through the 11-12, whereas his times where often matched for sector 1.

He was also that much quicker than his team mate who had the same level of downforce. So it's more likely that it was a combination of car, driver, tyres, setup and conditions all coming together to give that one guy an advantage, rather than anything inherent to the Red Bull and it's aerodynamics. Otherwise Webber would have matched him through that section.

It is true Webber was behind in sector 3 but he also lost out big time in sector 2 whereas Hamilton pretty much matched Vettel there. I just don't think Webber was on his game here. The same was true last year remember when he was almost .5 sec off Vettel in Melbourne.

I think the car was inherently faster and aero efficient than the rest of the field but only Vettel extracted the full performance from it.

[Mandrake]

This is a very rough and ready sketch of the two lines taken by the drivers:


You cannot say that Vettel following the red line was not able to carry a lot more speed through that corner due to running wide. It greatly reduces the turning radius. Had Vettel followed the rules he would not have made it past Button, simple as.

There is one big flaw in your sketch. Looking at that corner alone it would benefit vettel, but considering the following corner, he put himself at a worse position to enter the right handed. So by overtaking button on the outside he was slower in that sector compared to a clean lap ( the fastest lap came from fresh tires for the rest of the lap.)

If there was a wall on the outside, vettel would most probably not have made the pass but in either way he could just have slowed down in the corner "blocking" button on the exit putting him at risk of crashing

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Not only that mandrake, but going offline onto the dirty side would also have had implications on grip.
Its not cut and dried, granted. But if Vettel was penalised for this we would see drivers being less agressive in these situations, and as a fan I dont want to see that.

[Pandamasque]

@Mandrake
Without going wide he'd have to either go into the turn much slower or be hugely slower on the exit. Avoiding both of those scenarios by leaving the track enabled him to complete the overtaking manoeuvre without driving into the opponent. Advantage gained.
The dirty line, grip implications argument is nonsense. I've seen drivers taking it to the grass just to get ahead the opponent. It doesn't really matter if you'll lose a bit of time in the next few corners, blocking is easier than passing. In this case Vettel just drove away after that.

Rules are rules. Race control were right to penalize Button, but showed inconsistency with Vettel. And I hate to see that FIA, the teams, the drivers, fans and broadcasters disrespect the rules of their sport (by the way Brundle+DC shown lacking knowledge of the most basic rules).

[Richard]

panda - I think it is the opposite. Cars have used that run off area for as long as I can remember, they even use it in quali.

It seems that fans are the ones who get all uptight about analysing these events frame by frame. The participant simple shrug and put it down to racing. Race administration by Occum's razor would be a disaster for the sport.

[Poleman]

Using the run off when u are racing alone (driver error or any factor) is another thing than when overtaking someone.Since its a park and a wall cant be just be built there,i would love to see Vettel (or any driver) completing that move with a bunch of these placed in the runoff area.

[tok-tokkie]

I don't remember which race it was but last year Vettel overtook Hamilton & stuck to the racing line so that Hamilton lost part of his front wing against Vettel's car. There was huge (valid) criticism of him for that. This time he left room for Button. I have no problem with the stewards decision but Vettel certainly transgressed the rules.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Race administration by Occum's razor would be a disaster for the sport.

=D>

[andrew]

Had Vettel kept on the track, there would have most likely have been a smash. I may be wrong here but I think a driver is allowed to do what Vettel did if it avoids an accident, therefore no foul.

[Shrieker]

Yeah sure. The way he managed to put his nose ahead of Button in the first place was by not slowing to make the corner, thus carrying more speed to overtake round the outside, which was always going to carry him out of the white lines. Had there been a wall there, he couldn't even have dared an overtake. And the logic behind FIA's (stewards') decision should have been just that. But there wasn't even an inquiry which is a total disgrace. I would've loved seeing the ranting had Lewis Hamilton done that.


In Button's case there was one minor detail which was overlooked by everyone - including myself. After Button cut the chicane to get in front of Massa, Massa slowed down to give his place to his team mate. Doesn't that mean he isn't entitled to the spot which he was fighting over for with Button anymore ? I think it does.

[myurr]

Had Vettel kept on the track, there would have most likely have been a smash. I may be wrong here but I think a driver is allowed to do what Vettel did if it avoids an accident, therefore no foul.

So it's okay for Vettel to break the rules, but if it's Hamilton then the stewards (and Johnny Herbert in particular) are racially biased in his favour?

[i70q7m7ghw]

Stop this, I agreed it was in violation of the rules, the punishment was deserved, I'm just describing how events unfolded.

As for Vettel Vs Button, same really. I agree with the decision. BUT, basically to me that says that all drivers are allowed to extend the track in that corner to overtake another car.

Well then we're in agreement. I just don't understand why Button kept the position. He could have had a good go at a podium if he let them past straight away.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It didn't look like Button was on for a podium at that point in the race, there are so many ifs and buts... would ferrari have pitted had Button let them go? etc. etc.