Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

[PlatinumZealot]

exhibit 1...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyQjpJ4c-qk

KERS vs no-KERS?

Listen to LH's commentary – he used KERS twice in that move. What n_smikle is trying to point out is that 90% of drivers would have thought "hey, I'm closer than I've ever been here, lets dive up the inside", Hamilton thinks "I'm not close enough, lets try to set up an overtake in a spot that's not traditional."

Exactomundo!

Timbo Slice, looks like it flew right over your head. hehe..

It's Ok though, I think following Hamilton gives you an exquisite taste for overtakes. If you watch the video again and listen to what Hamilton said you will see it... that's a sweet overtake.

[HampusA]

Listen to LH's commentary – he used KERS twice in that move. What n_smikle is trying to point out is that 90% of drivers would have thought "hey, I'm closer than I've ever been here, lets dive up the inside", Hamilton thinks "I'm not close enough, lets try to set up an overtake in a spot that's not traditional."

Now that is hilarious.

[raymondu999]

Let's face it. Lewis is very good with overtakes, and not only that, he thinks them through very well. For example he knows he can double-deploy KERS on pit straights, or force people into a compromised exit on corners, etc. It's not just about his braking; and not just about straight-line speed of the McLaren; though those things help. His rare qualifying gaffes (though they do happen) and his good car help too; so it's just a bit of all those.

[Poleman]

A nice video edit from Lewis in action with some kickass music

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu5SMHpk ... re=related[/youtube]

[ringo]

Well, that would certainly explain why Hamilton is very prone to locking up a front wheel under braking and why Button can make a set of tires last much longer.

I think Hamilton is "so good" at overtaking because, relative to nearly every driver, he's always in a very competitive car and he's susceptible to making a lot of mistakes which necessitate overtaking. I think he'd be a much more successful driver if we were still left wondering about his overtaking abilities (like Vettel).

I don't understand the logic behind this,
You're joking right?

He has to make more overtakes to compensate for making too many overtakes?

Firstly He's not a mistake prone driver more than the others. Except for only button which is understandable. They all make about the same amount on average.

Hamilton's being more at high risk maneuvers while the others make mistakes out of losing control.

He's good becuase he's good, not because of some compensation.

The reason why he is good may well be max brake pressure, while having the abiliry to ease of the brakes proportionally to the drop in down force as the car slows down.
He is probably more in tune with the aerodynamics of the car under heavy braking than the others. That's the only way he can gauge the braking levels so well.
That ability doesn't have to do with Vettel or mistakes.

[ringo]

Back on topic, why is he so good on the brakes? I feel this also helps him when peforming overtakes.

Yes he has a natural feel on brakes but alot of the stuff he does is text book stuff.
That´s why it rarley works on seasoned driver´s like Schumacher and Alonso etc.

Basically the trick when approaching someone from behind you completely disregard your braking spot where you normally would brake.

Instead you watch the guy infront and as soon as he hit´s the brakes, you hit the brakes.
It´s a really simple and effective move because you sort of claim the track as you do it.

You have to be careful though not to overshoot the corner as the guy on the outside might pull one on you by braking extra late, causing you to miss the apex, he can cut in on the inside and regain position.

Many of the things Hamilton does is not special, it´s more text-book stuff.
the funny thing is that he seems to mostly be the only one really executing all of his arsenal.

Can i see some videos of the text book stuff please.

Like the "how to overtake shumachar into turn 1 at monaco". I hear that one is the rookie's favourite.

And the "how to overtake Alonso into the new turn 1 at silverstone in the wet at 150 mph".

Or my favourite "the outbrake Kimi so hard it look like the ferrari deployed a drag racing parachute".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzFDvZhn ... re=related[/youtube]

The Kid aint text book, and that's what makes it hard for the others to read the moves. Hence the high risk tangles. The overtakes were too brash.
The move on Button in canada would have been pretty good if Lewis wasn't squeezed.
Had it been text book, Jenson would have saw it coming from a mile away.

I don't know what kind of F1 you watch, but i can't think of any other extreme overtakers in the History of F1. Mansel is the closest, and he still doesn't fit the bill. And this is an objective observation which i am sure if we all think back of actual drivers and their arsenal, we would have to agree.
You may be able to think of 1 extreme overtake for a certain driver and say "here I found one, this guy was the best overtaker!", but you can't get a truck load of extreme overtakes from that driver as Hamilton has had just the 1/2 season alone.

Basically the trick when approaching someone from behind you completely disregard your braking spot where you normally would brake.

Instead you watch the guy infront and as soon as he hit´s the brakes, you hit the brakes.
It´s a really simple and effective move because you sort of claim the track as you do it

The trick is to pretend the guy in front is not there. At least that's how i do it in driving sims.
I completely disregard their braking spot and location and brake at my qualifying lap braking distance. Remeber the human reaction time is not instant.

The only time to brake later and miss the apex is when you know your car will obstruct the guy you are overtaking any way.

[Donuts]

"He thinks them thru", "not a textbook driver", "not traditional" etc...

Let's show some relatively recent video's of Monza 2010, Singapore 2010, Monaco 2011, Canada 2011 etc...

He takes more risks, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Some say he has balls, some say he lacks common sense.

Anyway, I remember media/commentators(not so smart here in Sweden) crowning him in 2009 as the "King of Overtaking", the Prince was Kamoi Kobayashi. Typical media/commentators I thought at the time. He had some terrible starts and qualifications, which then enabled him to "rise" thru the field... somebody allready wrote this at the begining of this thread, that's where I think it should have ended.

[timbo]

Listen to LH's commentary – he used KERS twice in that move. What n_smikle is trying to point out is that 90% of drivers would have thought "hey, I'm closer than I've ever been here, lets dive up the inside", Hamilton thinks "I'm not close enough, lets try to set up an overtake in a spot that's not traditional."

a) This year quite a few overtakes happened around second corner.
b)How can you say about 90% drivers when that year only 8(?) of 25(counting in all replacements) had opportunity to use KERS.
Besides, that KERS is not really helpful at high speeds is a textbook thing.

[raymondu999]

"He thinks them thru", "not a textbook driver", "not traditional" etc...

Let's show some relatively recent video's of Monza 2010, Singapore 2010, Monaco 2011, Canada 2011 etc...

He takes more risks, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Some say he has balls, some say he lacks common sense.

Anyway, I remember media/commentators(not so smart here in Sweden) crowning him in 2009 as the "King of Overtaking", the Prince was Kamoi Kobayashi. Typical media/commentators I thought at the time. He had some terrible starts and qualifications, which then enabled him to "rise" thru the field... somebody allready wrote this at the begining of this thread, that's where I think it should have ended.

Let's be fair here. He is a great overtaker, but though some deny it he is susceptible to brain fade as you say. It's not fair on his more beautifully executed overtakes to just generalise it under "he goes for it"

[beelsebob]

Listen to LH's commentary – he used KERS twice in that move. What n_smikle is trying to point out is that 90% of drivers would have thought "hey, I'm closer than I've ever been here, lets dive up the inside", Hamilton thinks "I'm not close enough, lets try to set up an overtake in a spot that's not traditional."

a) This year quite a few overtakes happened around second corner.

Really? I can only think of 2, both involved LH.

b)How can you say about 90% drivers when that year only 8(?) of 25(counting in all replacements) had opportunity to use KERS.
Besides, that KERS is not really helpful at high speeds is a textbook thing.

Huh? Since when was my statement anything to do with KERS at all? Does not having KERS stop you from thinking "I'm closer than ever, I'll stick it up the inside"?

I don't get how your assertion that KERS isn't helpful at high speeds is relevant either... go listen to the commentary... He KERSed once at the beginning of the straight to get into the tow, and KERSed again out of the first corner to make his better line work.

[raymondu999]

Actually LH overtook button and vettel at T2, then button took vettel, then webber took someone (can't remember who) and a few more. So it's clearly not just 2, and not just Hamilton

[timbo]

I don't get how your assertion that KERS isn't helpful at high speeds is relevant either... go listen to the commentary... He KERSed once at the beginning of the straight to get into the tow, and KERSed again out of the first corner to make his better line work.

Both at medium speed. He knew he had no point to use KERS thru the whole straight as it would just waste it — basic stuff that race engineer surely told him.

[beelsebob]

I don't get how your assertion that KERS isn't helpful at high speeds is relevant either... go listen to the commentary... He KERSed once at the beginning of the straight to get into the tow, and KERSed again out of the first corner to make his better line work.

Both at medium speed. He knew he had no point to use KERS thru the whole straight as it would just waste it — basic stuff that race engineer surely told him.

Yes... Hence why the statement about using KERS at high speed had no relevance to the discussion, I still don't get what the point you're trying to make is.

[timbo]

Yes... Hence why the statement about using KERS at high speed had no relevance to the discussion, I still don't get what the point you're trying to make is.

It's what you said

Listen to LH's commentary – he used KERS twice in that move.

He had too. No point use up everything at once.

Actually, if you have the book "Principles of race driving" by Senna, the move pretty much described here — make defending driver take inside position thus being in disadvantage on exit and overtake him out of the corner.

[HampusA]

[quote="ringo"]
The trick is to pretend the guy in front is not there. At least that's how i do it in driving sims.
I completely disregard their braking spot and location and brake at my qualifying lap braking distance. Remeber the human reaction time is not instant.

The only time to brake later and miss the apex is when you know your car will obstruct the guy you are overtaking any way.


But you see it is textbook for anyone with some racecraft.

Ever wondered why it usually takes atleast 1 lap for him to get past the guys you mentioned like Alonso and Schumacher?
Because they know and they´ve been there themselves.

He caught Kimi off guard there. imo it´s textbook stuff.
It´s actually a relatively easy thing to do what he did.

He doesn´t have to worry about anything but watching when Kimi hits the brakes.
Then he hits them.
If you want more of those overtakes check out his last GP2 career.



He´s not god, he´s not an alien. He just has alot of racecraft.

Bolded stuff. Exactly, and that´s why you watch Kimis braking because the milliseconds it takes for you to hit the brakes means you are side by side just before the corner.

If you hit your Qualifying mark with race fuel in you will miss the corner.
If not, then you could move your Qualifying braking spot even further.