Why hamilton is so good at overtaking

[HampusA]

It's not text book. Brundle and DC don't think so.
Look were Hamilton overtakes in China, where he takes Button and where he takes Vettel.
Then look back to 2010 china.
I don't call those text book.

You want text book, you look on Button's low risk overtakes.

I guess the overtake on Rosberg on the outside in Australia in the wet is text book in your book?

I think they are. I just think he is way more aware of what´s going on then most other drivers.
If you have alot of racecraft then you will always find your way around people if you are faster. Even on tracks like Monaco as Alonso showcased a while back.

There is no secrets to overtaking. It´s all about how you position your car along with a surprise factor to throw the other driver off guard or manipulate to get his car to where you want.
Overtaking is an art, and so is defending an overtake.

With that said, Hamilton is obviously in my mind the best overtaker.
But the things he do anyone can do if they got in that position.
His GP2 race in Turkey is just filled with text book overtaking and positioning.
And why was that? Because he spun on lap 1, and was pretty far back in the field.

[beelsebob]

It's not text book. Brundle and DC don't think so.
Look were Hamilton overtakes in China, where he takes Button and where he takes Vettel.
Then look back to 2010 china.
I don't call those text book.

You want text book, you look on Button's low risk overtakes.

I guess the overtake on Rosberg on the outside in Australia in the wet is text book in your book?

I think they are.

In which text book is the KERS around the outside of the fast corner on the marbles move listed?
In which one is the force the other driver to defend so much that his speed on the straight is compromised just when you have two KERS boosts ready listed?

Which other driver has made moves like these?

[Tim.Wright]

Discussions like this are what are turning this board to sht.

Tim

[beelsebob]

Discussions like this are what are turning this board to sht.

Actually, I thought we'd managed 26 pages of civil discussion on a contentious area pretty well. Maybe what's turning things to --- is people with nothing to contribute moaning about civil discussions.

[ajdavison2]

I agree, I think this thread has been handled very well by all of us involved

[Donuts]

It's not text book. Brundle and DC don't think so.
Look were Hamilton overtakes in China, where he takes Button and where he takes Vettel.
Then look back to 2010 china.
I don't call those text book.

You want text book, you look on Button's low risk overtakes.

I guess the overtake on Rosberg on the outside in Australia in the wet is text book in your book?

I think they are.

In which text book is the KERS around the outside of the fast corner on the marbles move listed?
In which one is the force the other driver to defend so much that his speed on the straight is compromised just when you have two KERS boosts ready listed?

Which other driver has made moves like these?

What textbook are we talking about? The one Robert Kubica used in Singapore 2010?

What on earth are you talking about? Have you not seen a driver get a bad exit from a corner beacuse he i pushed hard by another driver??? To have a fully charged KERS-battery for the right moment is easy if you have a faster car or fresher tyres or both! Valencia, who more than I was frustrated that Hamilton never had a fully charged KERS-battery for the last exit onto the straight?

The best manouver I've seen him pull this year was at Silverstone, when he was overtaken by Webber(fresher tyres) and then imdiatelly overtook him back.

[Fil]

So it seems Webber has actually been better at overtaking in 2011 than Hamilton.
Here's the count thusfar..


Webber 39
Buemi 36
Button 35
Kobayashi 32
Di Resta 29
Alguersuari 29
Massa 28
Heidfeld 26
Rosberg 25
Sutil 24
Perez 24
Barrichello 22
Maldonado 22
Hamilton 20
Petrov 20
Alonso 14


Source: YallaF1

[Donuts]

So it seems Webber has actually been better at overtaking in 2011 than Hamilton.
Here's the count thusfar..


Webber 39
Buemi 36
Button 35
Kobayashi 32
Di Resta 29
Alguersuari 29
Massa 28
Heidfeld 26
Rosberg 25
Sutil 24
Perez 24
Barrichello 22
Maldonado 22
Hamilton 20
Petrov 20
Alonso 14


Source: YallaF1

This says it all! Top three car with driver(Webber) that does'nt manage to qualify in a good position or does'nt manage a good start or is let down by the team in a pitstop! Then "rushes" thru the field to make the most takeovers. End of story.

[beelsebob]

So it seems Webber has actually been better at overtaking in 2011 than Hamilton.
Here's the count thusfar..


Webber 39
Buemi 36
Button 35
Kobayashi 32
Di Resta 29
Alguersuari 29
Massa 28
Heidfeld 26
Rosberg 25
Sutil 24
Perez 24
Barrichello 22
Maldonado 22
Hamilton 20
Petrov 20
Alonso 14


Source: YallaF1

Counting overtakes made in the pit lane, yes, Webber comes out nicely, on track... Not so much.

This does in part substantiate your claim though – notice the guy who's been out front all the time hasn't made *any* overtakes this season at all.

[wesley123]

list doesnt show anything. Webber is waht Donuts above me said. Buemi is the ultimate show of how DRS works and Button is so high up because he overtook like the whole field twice in Canada. Kobayashi, Di Resta and alguersuari are the same story as buemi. Massa is the first one that shows some sort of 'real' overtaking.

[flynfrog]

Discussions like this are what are turning this board to sht.

Tim

+1

[ringo]

So it seems Webber has actually been better at overtaking in 2011 than Hamilton.
Here's the count thusfar..


Webber 39
Buemi 36
Button 35
Kobayashi 32
Di Resta 29
Alguersuari 29
Massa 28
Heidfeld 26
Rosberg 25
Sutil 24
Perez 24
Barrichello 22
Maldonado 22
Hamilton 20
Petrov 20
Alonso 14


Source: YallaF1

Counting overtakes made in the pit lane, yes, Webber comes out nicely, on track... Not so much.

This does in part substantiate your claim though – notice the guy who's been out front all the time hasn't made *any* overtakes this season at all.

This is why i always ask for highlight reels, and which cars were overtaken.

It tells the whole story,especially since we are talking about quality.

best overtakers for me in the last 11 years
:
* means great overtaker, A, means A grade, B means gets the job done to a pretty good level.

*Hamilton
A Rosberg
B Webber
A shumacher, would give him the *, but his car is usually too fast to really put him in much of a battle.
A Barichello
A Alonso
A Montoya maybe delusions of grandeur, but i remember him being good.
B Massa (believe it or not Massa does quality overtakes when he has a good day)
B button
B+ kobayashi, not too impressed with the messy stuff, but he gets the job done.
A sutil, better believe this guy is good!
A- Kimi, i don't know, a lot of hype around this guy, very fast dude but can't see him being better overtaker than Massa pre 2008, and that's what spoils his A.
Highlights are lacking as well.

The rest i don't remember seeing anything worth easing out my seat for.

Someone else object to mine or do the previous 10 ten years.

I'll just say Hakinen, Mansell, Senna, Prost. I didn't have cable in the 90s
Just going off of highlights.

[ringo]

So it seems Webber has actually been better at overtaking in 2011 than Hamilton.
Here's the count thusfar..


Webber 39
Buemi 36
Button 35
Kobayashi 32
Di Resta 29
Alguersuari 29
Massa 28
Heidfeld 26
Rosberg 25
Sutil 24
Perez 24
Barrichello 22
Maldonado 22
Hamilton 20
Petrov 20
Alonso 14


Source: YallaF1

This says it all! Top three car with driver(Webber) that does'nt manage to qualify in a good position or does'nt manage a good start or is let down by the team in a pitstop! Then "rushes" thru the field to make the most takeovers. End of story.

Gimme a Kubica highlight reel man. Let's see what he has.

[PlatinumZealot]

What textbook are we talking about? The one Robert Kubica used in Singapore 2010?

Kubica's car was one second faster at the time.. and Sutil Yielded... but that is another discussion.

A quality overtake is one that is difficult to perform. (We have seen Hamilton string together overtakes that took multiple turns to compile).

That Singapore pounce on Webber, it's success undone by Webber, was a very nice move because of the events leading up to it. Hamilton made a split second decision with the timing of that "pounce."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynp28-jt8J0[/youtube]

[PlatinumZealot]

So it seems Webber has actually been better at overtaking in 2011 than Hamilton.
Here's the count thusfar..


Webber 39
Buemi 36
Button 35
Kobayashi 32
Di Resta 29
Alguersuari 29
Massa 28
Heidfeld 26
Rosberg 25
Sutil 24
Perez 24
Barrichello 22
Maldonado 22
Hamilton 20
Petrov 20
Alonso 14


Source: YallaF1

He just has more that doesn't mean he is better. Post some highlight reels as ringo says.