When is the time to switch to 2012 car development?

[raymondu999]

Have Ferrari kind of moved up their schedule? Seem to be working on the 2012 Ferrari now http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93903

[Robbobnob]

forgive me as i cannot find the article, but i recall Domenicali stating that the development of the f150th would be switched to complete attention to the 2012 car by september

[raymondu999]

I know, but now Domenicali tells autosport that they're "flat out" on the 2012 car.

[Tyler]

Sorry a bit off topic but I've got a feeling that Ferrari's 2012 challenger is going to be the one to beat next season.
With Pat Fry on board, all the parts they've been testing that they've said could help them next year and talk of the car design being more innovative and aggressive I have a feeling that Ferrari as well as McLaren will have the measure on Red Bull next season. I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso picks up his 3rd championship.
Back to the 150 Italia, I wonder if Red Bull have reached the end of development with the RB7 and whether the 150 Italia will continue to challenge them for the remainder of the season.

[raymondu999]

With the risk of running very off-tangent, I think Red Bull has diverted more resources to the RB8 than the other teams have; with over 2 1-2s of a lead in the WCC and just about 3 and a half race lead in the WDC they can afford to, frankly. Sure Pat's good, but I'm not sure; has he had a good track record of being "aggressive" and "creative?" The last design that needed creativity was the 2009 cars; and don't forget Pat designed the MP4-24.

[Robbobnob]

I agree ray, they are nursing their titles, keeping the rb7 just quick enough, aswell as proving the last two years they can develop and compete at the same time.

Regarding Ferrari, from what i gather is the figure heads have deemed the F150th to be not worth the effort to get it up to speed if the current developments don't prove enough to win soon.

[HampusA]

With the risk of running very off-tangent, I think Red Bull has diverted more resources to the RB8 than the other teams have; with over 2 1-2s of a lead in the WCC and just about 3 and a half race lead in the WDC they can afford to, frankly. Sure Pat's good, but I'm not sure; has he had a good track record of being "aggressive" and "creative?" The last design that needed creativity was the 2009 cars; and don't forget Pat designed the MP4-24.

Not so sure about that

Imagine winning almost every race in the beginning of the season, Horner and Newey thought instantly they were unstoppable again.

Then Button, Hamilton and Alonso racks up 5 wins where Mclaren has won the last 2 races on tracks that we really did not think RBR would be threatened.
I´d say RBR has a nervous breakdown and they are realizing that the other teams are catching them.

If they work on RB8 alot, they could loose this years title.
If they continue work on RB7 they might not have a good car next year.

Mclaren and Ferrari sits in a fairly good position afterall, it´s like a win/win situation due to the massive points difference.

[Hemsy]

With the risk of running very off-tangent, I think Red Bull has diverted more resources to the RB8 than the other teams have; with over 2 1-2s of a lead in the WCC and just about 3 and a half race lead in the WDC they can afford to, frankly. Sure Pat's good, but I'm not sure; has he had a good track record of being "aggressive" and "creative?" The last design that needed creativity was the 2009 cars; and don't forget Pat designed the MP4-24.

Not so sure about that

Imagine winning almost every race in the beginning of the season, Horner and Newey thought instantly they were unstoppable again.

Then Button, Hamilton and Alonso racks up 5 wins where Mclaren has won the last 2 races on tracks that we really did not think RBR would be threatened.
I´d say RBR has a nervous breakdown and they are realizing that the other teams are catching them.

If they work on RB8 alot, they could loose this years title.
If they continue work on RB7 they might not have a good car next year.

Mclaren and Ferrari sits in a fairly good position afterall, it´s like a win/win situation due to the massive points difference.

Even if RBR focused very little on the RB8,it would matter very little. Because apart from the change to the exhaust positions, the rules for next year remain the same. This means that this year's development applies very much next year. So if anything Ferrari have their work cut out as they have to start from a fairly clean sheet of paper.

[raymondu999]

Yep. Sorry Hampus but I agree with Hemsy. It doesn't matter that they've only won 1 of the last 5 races, it matters more for Horner/Newey that Vettel has still gotten the most points from those 5 races. Sure the stat sounds worrying, "you've won 1 in the last 5 races," meaning they've been beat 4 times in the last 5, but doesn't sound as bad as any other driver's. "You've been beat 9 times in the last 11 races.

Considering his 4 rivals are taking points out of each other, very aggressively, and doing a very good job of depriving each other of points, then Red Bull will be pretty safe. Even if they don't win another race.

[Pierce89]

Yep. Sorry Hampus but I agree with Hemsy. It doesn't matter that they've only won 1 of the last 5 races, it matters more for Horner/Newey that Vettel has still gotten the most points from those 5 races. Sure the stat sounds worrying, "you've won 1 in the last 5 races," meaning they've been beat 4 times in the last 5, but doesn't sound as bad as any other driver's. "You've been beat 9 times in the last 11 races.

Considering his 4 rivals are taking points out of each other, very aggressively, and doing a very good job of depriving each other of points, then Red Bull will be pretty safe. Even if they don't win another race.

Maybe, but Newey has probably rung every last tenth from this concept. Next year will be a 3 way fight from the beginning. I also think Mclaren will start 2012 with tha car most similar to their 2011 design(which is obviously coming good). I think next yers Ferrari will look very tight and small compared thoe the F150, while the RB8 will need something new.

[raymondu999]

I agree that next year will be a lot closer. We could see a return to 2007/2008-type McLaren/Ferrari equality, except with 3 teams.

I agree that the RB5-6-7 design is just about reaching its peak and it needs something new if it wants to stay a super quick car. It will be at the sharp end, but at the moment I can only see them "equal" with McLaren and Ferrari. For one I think Newey might try to go the Williams gearbox route to even further optimize their rear end, but there's only so much he can do with that. I don't think he'll drastically change the design to something like maybe the U-sidepods. He's too heavily vested into this concept.

Having said all this, I think the biggest gain will be with how the cars can manage to "keep" some of its rake. With the loss of the EBDs to create an air seal to help the teams put up more rake, if a team can get a trick of sorts to be able to maintain it, then that could be a differentiating factor. I think Newey could be taking a long hard look at a lot of the other designs to see what he himself could copy.

[timbo]

I agree that next year will be a lot closer. We could see a return to 2007/2008-type McLaren/Ferrari equality, except with 3 teams.

That would be great for F1 if it happens, but there's no shortage of examples of a teams not being up to expectations. We'd wait and see.
What's interesting is that at tis stage all three teams can afford resource shift to next year cars. RBR because they are so far at the front and Ferrari/McLaren is because they are so far behind

[donskar]

If I read the previous several posts correctly, it seems some of you think that RBR will be at a disadvantage because Newey will have to design a "new" car (based on the assumption that the current car has reached its peak). It also appears Ferrari will have a "new" car. I have no idea where McLaren is in the development life cycle, but I have no doubt that Newey can design a new car from a clean sheet of paper with the best of them. I trust Newey has developed new ideas as he has developed his current car and that those ideas will lead to an excellent new design. Ferrari has its work cut out for it.

[beelsebob]

If I read the previous several posts correctly, it seems some of you think that RBR will be at a disadvantage because Newey will have to design a "new" car (based on the assumption that the current car has reached its peak). It also appears Ferrari will have a "new" car. I have no idea where McLaren is in the development life cycle, but I have no doubt that Newey can design a new car from a clean sheet of paper with the best of them. I trust Newey has developed new ideas as he has developed his current car and that those ideas will lead to an excellent new design. Ferrari has its work cut out for it.

Not entirely relevant here... but I would expect McLaren will need a redesign too... Their current design is all about feeding the beam wing, which will ceases to exist next year.

[ajdavison2]

Is the beam wing banned next year? why?