Team: Tim Goss (Director of Engineering), Paddy Lowe (TD), Neil Oatley (DRD), Martin Whitmarsh (TP), Jonathan Neale (MD), Sam Michael (SD) Drivers: Jenson Button (3), Lewis Hamilton (4) Team name: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
The 'updates' mclaren 'hope' to bring wont be worth looking at. Sam michael said because the season is so tight it's worth bringing mechanical updates mid season instead of waiting till the new season, so there's a strong possibility any updates will be under the skin
CjC wrote:The 'updates' mclaren 'hope' to bring wont be worth looking at. Sam michael said because the season is so tight it's worth bringing mechanical updates mid season instead of waiting till the new season, so there's a strong possibility any updates will be under the skin
That just doesn't make any sense. Nothing out of his mouth has impressed me. In a close championship, the biggest differentiator, aerodynamics, all of a sudden takes a back seat.
I am frankly not surprised. It's my observation that this team is best at optimization but a bit lacking in coming up with one great central idea that makes a car good throughout the season. If this is true then I'm afraid that's all they can do for the low nose and "even loaded" front wing.
In general do people in this forum consider the hiring of Sam Michaels from Williams a good call? Im just kinda in shock looking at the arsenal of updates from Ferrari and RB and then at the lack of them from Macca simply beyond belief. Maybe it's just me but I would expect a team with such incredible resources, engineers, and amazing drivers, to be bringing upgrades every single race - not to mention the home race for goodness sake. Is Sam the one who decides what they bring and what gets updated?
As far as I know, he's only in charge of operations at the track. Pit crew, organizing the mechanics, getting Martin a sandwich and so forth. He hasn't exactly impressed in that role, of course, but I don't think he has any engineering input on the car.
I haven't been all too impressed with any part of McLaren of late. Development used to be their forte, but today they seem to lag even mid-pack teams in that regard. They seem a bit, dare I say, lazy? Too laid back might be a better choice of words. And the loss of talent has been enormous. I used to think that Martin would be a good change in that regard, but it seems not.
The most troubling thing I've read about McLaren was just this morning, when Martin mentioned that Michaels might run the team someday.
Let's use Williams as an example. Pastor was the quickest at Barcelona, a track renowned to favour aerodynamic efficiency. The general rule of thumb is, if you are quick there you are quick everywhere. Has that really been the case? Well, not exactly. Williams have been a top 8 contender on pace imo, but they have not yet again demonstrated that leading pace.
So can we conclude upto Barcelona their development pace exceeded all the other teams? And since then they have dropped off?
Well, of course not.. =/ What happened was a strong car had awesome performances thanks to nailing the tyre performance window. Team mates prove this idea surely? Senna has struggled with the tyres all season and it showed in Barcelona where the gap between himself and Pastor was pretty large.
The biggest performance differentiator is tyres, it ALWAYS has, and ALWAYS will. An example is the transformation of the BAR 005 from a mid field car to a car that still holds the lap record of the old Barcelona configuration and a car the team estimated was a regular top 6 contender. They stated an improvement of 0.7 - 1 second from the switch to Michelin. Now, how easy is it to find that performance with aero? Over a season that is an impressive figure. Over the course of a few races? Near impossible.
Mclaren will obviously bring aerodynamic updates but the basic aerodynamic platform has proved to be good enough. Mclaren's current lack of understanding and current lack of performance maximisation has been tyres.
When this season could you have honestly said Mclaren lack downforce? As far as ive seen the car has been impressive on all WHEN they hit the performance window with the tyres.
In the past where the tyres have behaved regular (??) for near enough all teams, aero became very important but right now, look at how degree changes in temperate effect the performance? Key to winning is understanding that, and getting your car to essentially de-sensitive the tyres behaviour, or at least being able to predict performance change against a number of variables.
This is my opinion and I am open to change it if I can be appropriately convinced by people who may know more on the situation??
My opinion on Sam? Fantastic addition to Mclaren, and arguably partly responsible for pit stop mistakes, but also recorded the fastest pit stop ever. We are judging him in a season where it is unpredictable in all areas. That has not really been considered so far.
Dont get me wrong and I agree that aero is king, I've heard that saying of an f1 personnel.
From what I've heard Sam Michael has no technical or aero input on the car and like its been said he's in charge of operations and personally I think he's done alright, I don't think you blame him for the pit stop problems this year. I have read people's comments on the bbc f1 website saying that he's a waste of time and he's dragged Williams down and it's only a matter of time till mclaren get dragged down the grid but like I said Sam has no technical input so I don't believe it will as bad as that having him in the team.
Speaking of mclarens development rate, I'm disappointed too. I don't think they are lazy or laid back. I think they hav started the last few seasons off with the best car they could possibly design and then they don't know where to go with it next for development. It's easy to make a bad car good ie. the 09 mclaren and the '12 ferrari. I said it in one of my other posts mclaren just need to copy some of the other teams solutions ie. red bulls vented diffuser, just like the other teams has copied mclarens exhaust solution.
Also I agree about the tyres being the biggest differentiator and I hate it, this season must be amazing for pirelli PR, everyone is talking about them, it's Formula 1! Not formula pirelli. I hate this seasons tyres, can anyone explain to me what was wrong with last years pirellis?
Agreed, I think Sam is the obvious scape goat for all Macca's problems at the moment, you can't blame him for their lackluster development, many of the pit stop errors have been down to engineering problems, wheel nuts & jacks etc.
The obvious development route is to focus on the tyre performance and broadening the performance window.
I'd rather read about guesses conjecture and theories as to what McLaren might have upgraded mechanically than to read about how good or not good Sam Michael is in the CAR thread. Thanks.
I don't think it's a matter of work ethic or laziness. They've just hit the wall with what they can improve. You can only optimize a design so much until there isn't much to do anymore. Even when they've started seasons with relatively bad cars, they've optimized the package into a decent one. Compare their approach with the high nose and tear drop shape Newey is famous for...one can see the logic. Now 90% of the grid can't be in a dark hole to have followed that route. The 27 is fast because it's perhaps the most mature of all the cars in their respective designs.I reckon the massive amounts of data and sim work help them achieve this. How often have we seen them hit the track on friday and already be on pace...only for other teams to slowly reel them in by FP3? Where they are lacking is in coming up with a design that has room for growth. If everyone had to go with as low a nose as they have, I'd bet they'd be spanking the whole grid by now...yes..even with the tire problem.
He said they aim to bring a tenth of a second of pace to the car every race but they are expecting more this race with an aero upgrade and a suspension upgrade, so most likely we won't see the changes because the aero upgrade might be on the floor and the suspension could be in the skin.
I am still hoping for the vented diffuser and the stacked winglets next to the rear tyres on the suspension arms/linkages (red bull inspired)
Last edited by CjC on 04 Jul 2012, 23:31, edited 1 time in total.
they are planning to bring a small upgrade package to silverstone.
I agree that they are perhaps better off focusing on tyres, at least for this season. Its silly to question their work ethic or to call them lazy. Unless you're in their offices regularly, its a Baseless Statement.
Watch the car on Friday!
