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[CjC]

Regarding wet/dry set ups:

"It's difficult to know how other people played it. But I think certain things you can change under the climactic conditions rules, but certain things not, you can't change your rear wing level, and you'd have been pretty bold in qualifying to put a dry rear wing setting on the car. Maybe other people took more of an optimistic view on the grid with respect to the weather than we did.''

Thats Paddy Lowe speaking, so they do change the rear wing levels...

[Nando]

More DF overall, Softer suspension and an engine map that is less aggressive, more linear power delivery and i think more torque. higher ride-height

For rain setup i would guess these are the main areas.

[Owen.C93]

Paddy said there wasn't much of a difference last year when setup was all about finding a balance of front/rear grip, traction and stability. Those things stay pretty much the same with the wet so it's not a problem which setup you use really. This year setup is all about working the tyres, a small change in setup can really cost you a tonne of time either on a single lap or on a race distance with high degradation. This is why lack of running on Friday and a wet setup that wouldn't normally be a problem caught McLaren out. That's what I think anyway.

[ringo]

The nose is slowing them down, and im not going off of any journo sensationalism either. It's just the reality. The higher nose is better aerodynamically; this is a fact. All things being equal it is a disadvantage to have a lower nose.

That's the point though - all things are not equal. To change to a stepped nose is more than just redesigning the front of the tub to change the bulkhead position; it's about a change in concept of the car.

It is not as dramatic as that.

Will the change mean that the exhaust system needs to be reworked? Will it require significant changes to the front wing (one thing the high nose does is change how the air comes off the front wing)? Will it require changes to the floor along the sidepods? Will it require changes to the shape of the sidepod and thus packaging within the sidepod? Will it need changes to the diffuser shape?

Only the tub needs to be changed. It's very simple. It's not as complicated and circular as you make it out to be. The higher nose will affect everything, but it can only do so positively, so you will see a net positive change in other areas. That does not mean those areas have to be changed. They may be improved down the line after one or 2 races if the higher noses increases the potential, but a net positive is a good baseline, before they start jumping all over modifying things.

If they thought they could do it and make it RB8 quick out of the box then I'm sure they would. But they won't. Even if they can get it out early enough in this season it's going to take several races to understand it and get it working.

I can see them introducing it later in the season as a way of learning for next season, but at the moment it makes no sense to do it.

Don't swear for them. They can redesign the tub, and they know it is a relative weakness. It does make sense to do it.
Similar discussions have been had on F1t in relation, to exhausts, noses, wings etc, we always assume they think of and tried everything; when in reality they haven't.
Teams can copy fast and it does make sense to jump into it right away to at least get the ball rolling.
Keep in mind they have made a nose change this season already. They are aware of the issue.

As for mclaren's overall performance, other than the downforce, i am not sure how teams go about using the tyres differently amongst themselves.
Not sure if it's a simple setup change that will allow them to perform at the level of lotus for example.

[ringo]

What we do know is that the lotus is sprung very softly, based on onboard video.
Maybe this gives them their tyre life at the expense of qualifying pace?
The softer springing is less of an effect as the race goes on and the car loses weight, and lotus shows their best at these latter stages.
Mclaren is known to spring their cars very hard. Could have something to do with it.

Heck even breaking down the whole race into time periods and having a certain driving style for a segment of laps in a stint could be lotus' secret.

[Viscount]

ringo I highly doubt McLaren can simply redesign the tub. I was watching an interview with Ferrari's chief aerodynamicist Nikolas Tombazis, they signed off on their 2012 monocoque design June last year. So McLaren will already have designed next year's tub, I highly doubt they'll be able to build another this year just for half a season if they're designed that early and especially with the resource restriction agreement.

[Nando]

Paddy said there wasn't much of a difference last year when setup was all about finding a balance of front/rear grip, traction and stability. Those things stay pretty much the same with the wet so it's not a problem which setup you use really. This year setup is all about working the tyres, a small change in setup can really cost you a tonne of time either on a single lap or on a race distance with high degradation. This is why lack of running on Friday and a wet setup that wouldn't normally be a problem caught McLaren out. That's what I think anyway.

I hope you are right hurts me to see both drivers struggle like this...

It´s like a never ending story for them in terms of problems.

[Chuckjr]

That's leadership dysfunction and that will not change until restructuring takes place. It's what Ferrari is/has been addressing I believe with all the hiring/firing they have been enacting for a year now. Macca better get with the program or the problems you see now will not only continue, but worsen.

[aral]

ringo I highly doubt McLaren can simply redesign the tub. I was watching an interview with Ferrari's chief aerodynamicist Nikolas Tombazis, they signed off on their 2012 monocoque design June last year. So McLaren will already have designed next year's tub, I highly doubt they'll be able to build another this year just for half a season if they're designed that early and especially with the resource restriction agreement.

I fully agree. To produce a new tub with the higher bulkhead, will require new suspension and aero under the nose, sidepods and rear. In effect, apart from the engine , gearbox, and possibly rear suspension, any redesign would basically mean a completely new car, and this appears highly unlikely as the season is half over. We are more likely to see gradual changes, in order to try and maximise what they have already.

[PlatinumZealot]

Then again they have nothing to lose. The only drawback is that next years regulations might not allow stepped noses. I saw it somewhere Charlie Whiting hinted that the regulations won't enable high noses.

[raymondu999]

It's a tough call. Develop something that you know will only last for a few more months? Mind you in 2010 McLaren brought an update to the F-duct at Abu Dhabi, so... never say never

[mx_tifoso]

Recent posts about the teams chances for the championship have been moved to the team thread

[PlatinumZealot]

They will be bringing "special" updates to ensure Hamilton victory for his 200th GP.

All I know is that the emphasis is on "special" So prepare to see something "special"

[raymondu999]

They will be bringing "special" updates to ensure Hamilton victory for his 200th GP.

When did he sprout another 100? Did he inherit them somewhere?

[Huntresa]

They will be bringing "special" updates to ensure Hamilton victory for his 200th GP.

When did he sprout another 100? Did he inherit them somewhere?

Barrichello gave him some