Mercedes AMG F1 W04

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
User avatar
Forza
272
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:55 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

tok-tokkie wrote:
mantikos wrote: They are used as vortex generators in addition to helping the airflow stay attached to the top of the sidepods which is essential for the coanda exh to work - think reduced surface drag = faster airflow over sidepods.
How does a vortex help 'airflow stay attached'?
In addition you have to at both devices ( horizontal fins under the mirrors and vertical vanes on the sidepods) as a whole system. The VG create a tip vortices that increase the energy of the boundary layer over the surface consequently the separation region is narrowed. In our case they condition the airflow over the sidepods. (and create stronger downwash effect). Vortices mix higher and lower layers of boundary layer and the mixture prevents separation. Just an example below.
Image
Image
Image

stefan_
stefan_
815
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

Barcelona Session 1 - Day 4 (22.02.2013)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by stefan_ on Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

flyboy2160
flyboy2160
101
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:05 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

the vortex generators (vgs) are like little dams placed at an angle to the flow. they force the air up and over them or around them, causing a swirl, like a little tornado. you can see this swirl start in a close up of flow over a simple angled plate shape: Image

the swirl pulls air above the surface - which has more velocity - down to the surface where the air has 'lost' velocity. this added velocity helps keep the air from separating off the surface.

you have to play with the size, shape, and location of these things. here's a shot showing my initial placement of some vgs on a wing:Image

without them, the 'bad' blue air separated right about where the little vortex generator is sticking up. it helped keep the flow attached a little longer. that is the blue area is father back, but the flow still separates.

the vgs on the top of the sidepods are probably trying to do the same thing - keep the flow attached to the sidepod upper surface instead of having it separate.

hope this helps explain a litlle better......

edit: i say 'probably,' because some of the little wing shapes on top of the sidepods may just be flow directors, not neceassarily vortex generators.
Last edited by flyboy2160 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
22
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:16 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

I was looking at lap times of Rosberg and Hamilton this week. The lap times were very, very impresive and consistent. I don't know why is Hamilton so pesimistic: Red Bull are late in design with their car. Ferrari are also late by three months (Alonso said that they are where they were in November 2012) and Mp4-28 is slower than Mp4-27. It's pretty obvious that Red Bull and Mclaren did not find out that 1 second during the winter. Hamilton's time was +800 slower than the best time this week (Perez's time). Hamilton was on hard tyres and on a 10 lap stint, while Perez was on soft and one lap stint. Than I watched Rosberg's lap times on longer runs and were very consistent ( there were 15-17 laps per stint) and the degradation was the same as were Grosjean's. The commentor of Sky Sports present at Barcelona told that Red Bull should sit down and take notice of Hamilton's time on hard. Some people doesn't know that Mercedes W04 started very earlier in design and development by comparyson to Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari. I think that Mercedes will be definetely in the mix for podiums and wins.

Shakeman
Shakeman
51
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

mclaren_mircea wrote:I was looking at lap times of Rosberg and Hamilton this week. The lap times were very, very impresive and consistent.
They are managing expectations. The last thing this particular team needs is runaway expectations that they cannot meet which just ends in bad publicity.

Lewis has unsuccessfully tried to hide a smirk while downplaying the team's chances so take that as you like.

I have to say looking at the footage of the car it doesn't look like it has a downforce problem and has looked as good as the other top teams.

Anon123
Anon123
8
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:33 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

mclaren_mircea wrote:I was looking at lap times of Rosberg and Hamilton this week. The lap times were very, very impresive and consistent. I don't know why is Hamilton so pesimistic: Red Bull are late in design with their car. Ferrari are also late by three months (Alonso said that they are where they were in November 2012) and Mp4-28 is slower than Mp4-27. It's pretty obvious that Red Bull and Mclaren did not find out that 1 second during the winter. Hamilton's time was +800 slower than the best time this week (Perez's time). Hamilton was on hard tyres and on a 10 lap stint, while Perez was on soft and one lap stint. Than I watched Rosberg's lap times on longer runs and were very consistent ( there were 15-17 laps per stint) and the degradation was the same as were Grosjean's. The commentor of Sky Sports present at Barcelona told that Red Bull should sit down and take notice of Hamilton's time on hard. Some people doesn't know that Mercedes W04 started very earlier in design and development by comparyson to Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari. I think that Mercedes will be definetely in the mix for podiums and wins.
Ferrari look behind on the 2014 engine (purely based on the fact that James Allen said at the end of 2011 that Mercedes would have their engine on the dyno within a few months) and they've had wind tunnel problems so perhaps they are putting most of their effort towards the 2014 season. Red Bull don't appear to have made any revolutionary updates so their 2013 development might stagnate. Mclaren have threw away a design which was very effective at the end of last year to go down the stepped nose with panel route and as Jenson said the car feels slower. I think this year will be a brilliant opportunity for Mercedes and Lotus to fight for a podium place in the constructors. [-o<

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
22
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:16 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

The car seems as quick as the others. :D I was watching live timing the third day of testing on Auto-Motor-Und-Sport and thay said the the car was really stable on the hard tyres in the second sector, which means that it has a decent level of downforce. I think it's a strange context, because FIA closed all the holes for Newey tricks this season ( flexi noses, holes in the read floor, engine maping etc), Ferrari are pretty much on the same level as they ended the season, and Mclaren killed their chanches with the new design. Lotus and Mercedes can have a very good season. And another thing is that Mercedes deliberately didn'd put a single lap soft tyres all week, wich I think it's clear that they don't want to show all what they have in their bag. :roll:

User avatar
gray41
50
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:07 am

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

No monkey seat in that last photo.
Lewis Hamilton #44
2016
Poles: *****
Wins: ***

k.ko100v
k.ko100v
14
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

IMO this http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/10/17/me ... uspension/ is their silver bullet.
I've read in a local magazine, that one of the first jobs of Aldo (when was employed to MGP), was to develop the system. The DDRS they used last year was messed the balance so much, that the benefits of that hydraulic system were not seen. Maybe this system is the key for the good mechanical grip, the team demonstrated last year, like Monte Carlo GP.

There is more: The rumours are, that Aldo has finished the system and there was a hydraulic connection, between the front and the rear axels, which makes it more avangard and with more potential.

Nando
Nando
12
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:30 am

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

Just read an article saying "Mercedes is 3 seconds off-pace"
Whatta....f...then i read it and he clearly does not say that.

Still completely in the mist as to where this car stack up against the competitors..
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

User avatar
MacX
3
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:54 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

k.ko100v wrote:IMO this http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/10/17/me ... uspension/ is their silver bullet.
I've read in a local magazine, that one of the first jobs of Aldo (when was employed to MGP), was to develop the system. The DDRS they used last year was messed the balance so much, that the benefits of that hydraulic system were not seen. Maybe this system is the key for the good mechanical grip, the team demonstrated last year, like Monte Carlo GP.

There is more: The rumours are, that Aldo has finished the system and there was a hydraulic connection, between the front and the rear axels, which makes it more avangard and with more potential.
this innovative, somehow visible? in W04?

k.ko100v
k.ko100v
14
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

MacX wrote: this innovative, somehow visible? in W04?
We'll have to look for third hydraulic receiver at the front and another one at the back. If there are some, they must be definetly, under the body of the car.

kooleracer
kooleracer
66
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

Mercedes has good the chance to do well this season. Mainly because of there driver line-up i think. I really respect Rosberg and MSC performance last year. If i hear how Hamilton talks about this years car. That means last years car was certainly out performed by the drivers. So this year with the W04 and the drivers i think podiums will be possible. Because Massa,Webber,Perez,(Button) will under perform as always. You got to deal with Kimi,Grosjean,Alonso and Vettel in my view. Grosjean makes the odd mistakes. The Ferrari isn't the best car out there. So the guys that always bring there A-game are Vettel,Kimi,Rosberg and Hamilton.

I have good hopes for this season we will fight for podiums if McLaren car is not to Button's liking (always whinning about something when it isn't perfect Button, no can catch him when its perfect though suzuka,spa 2012). I can't see Perez, Massa and Webber out-performing there car like their teammates will do. So if Mercedes is 0.3-0.5 of the pace of the fastest car those second drivers will be as quick or slower then Rosberg and Hamilton because they are just better drivers than Massa,Webber and Perez.

The good thing about this test for Mercedes is they don't have issues that are so severe that i would take up time for the design team to rethink it again. Ferrari had 2 exhaust broken that will take up resources to fix. Mercedes tire problem as Rosberg quoted is over. The rear grip problems are over. The have more DF, that means that the new additions to the team and the 60% model are gelling well. Ross Brawn said the numbers they are getting are the numbers they where expecting. So now they can focus on fixing reliability and finding more DF. Rosberg said that the development rate of the team has improved. So i hope they can find a lot a DF in this short period. If I compare the W04 with E21,RB9 and MP4-28 I can understand why Hamilton is saying that they are lacking DF. Those cars are much more refined even to the naked untrained eye like mine. Hoping for test 3 to see visual gains in the DF department.

some of the quotes you will find in this interview: http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 14284.html
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."

Anon123
Anon123
8
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:33 pm

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

I've just realised that the W04 could have the fastest laps of the week on the medium and hard tyres, I don't know if the likes of Alonso and Sergio did better laps on those tyres because it only shows the drivers fastest times.

1. Sergio Pérez / McLaren / 1:21.848 / 174 laps / Soft
2. Fernando Alonso / Ferrari /1:21.875 / 283 laps / Soft
3. Nico Hülkenberg / Sauber / 1:22.160 / 179 laps / Soft
4. Romain Grosjean / Lotus / 1:22.188 / 160 laps / Soft
5. Sebastian Vettel / Red Bull / 1:22.197 / 150 laps / Soft
6. Nico Rosberg / Mercedes / 1:22.611 / 162 laps / Medium
7. Kimi Räikkönen / Lotus / 1:22.623 / 87 laps / Medium
8. Pastor Maldonado / Williams / 1:22.675 / 178 laps / Soft
9. Lewis Hamilton / Mercedes / 1:22.726 / 173 laps / Hard
10. Valtteri Bottas / Williams / 1:22.826 / 189 laps / Soft
11. Jenson Button / McLaren / 1:22.840 / 141 laps / Hard
12. Adrian Sutil / Force India / 1:22.877 / 78 laps / Soft
13. Mark Webber / Red Bull / 1:23.024 / 172 laps / Medium
14. Jean-Éric Vergne / Toro Rosso / 1:23.366 / 186 laps / Medium
15. Daniel Ricciardo / Toro Rosso / 1:23.718 / 143 laps / Medium
16. Paul di Resta / Force India / 1:23.971 / 144 laps / Medium
17. Max Chilton / Marussia / 1:25.115 / 241 laps / Soft
18. Esteban Gutiérrez / Sauber / 1:25.124 / 129 laps / Hard
19. Jules Bianchi / Force India / 1:25.732 / 96 laps / Medium
20. Giedo van der Garde / Caterham / 1:26.177 / 133 laps / Soft
21. Charles Pic / Caterham / 1:26.243 / 151 laps / Medium
22. Felipe Massa / Ferrari / 1:27.553 / 80 laps / Medium

User avatar
mep
34
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:48 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W04

Post

hahaha
looks good for Sauber