2014 British GP - Silverstone

[SectorOne]

...both over-driving, or is the pit-in that much shorter that the car in the pitlane crosses the start/finish before they would on circuit?

Yea pitting is quicker then finishing the lap properly.

Seems to be round about a second faster to pit instead of finishing the lap.

[beelsebob]

Here´s a visual representation of the HAM/ROS battle.
Rosberg is faster up until lap 9 then Hamilton starts to cut down the gap considerably only for it to swing the other way again, both set their fastest laptime on the same lap then Rosberg´s gearbox went caput.

It would be interesting to know exactly when Rosberg started realizing something wasn´t right with the gearbox.

http://i.imgur.com/dtv7TUB.jpg

The both lost time on the lap their teammate was in the pits...
...gap looks big enough for it not to be a hold up...
...both over-driving, or is the pit-in that much shorter that the car in the pitlane crosses the start/finish before they would on circuit?

Yes, it's much much shorter through the pits. Entering the pits you do full throttle in a straight line, brake for a corner, turn right, and hit the finish line. On track, you brake from a lower speed, turn left, turn right, and then turn right again through to the finish line.

[SectorOne]

Not finish line but timing beacon line. finish line is much further up the road.

Finish line is about halfway down the pits, so to that point it´s slower in pits but because the timing beacon line is right after they turn right in the beginning of "The Wing" it´s faster.

Here´s an approximation that shows why you get a faster laptime by taking the pits.

[beelsebob]

Not finish line but timing beacon line. finish line is much further up the road.

No, the finish line is where you marked the timing beacon line. The reason the start line and the finish line are in different places is so that the stewards can tell who won if the timing systems fail - it's right outside the stewards' window.

[zeph]

Loved the race. Well done to Lewis even if he won by virtue of Rosbergs retirement. I suppose you have to be there to benefit from others misfortune.

Alonso was superb through the race but it all meant nothing when he was reminded by Vettel why Seb is a 4 time WDC. great racing , wheel to wheel stuff. Although both of them should have just shut up and raced I think it was Alonso who cried the most. Strange how upset he became when he was showed up by Seb in a straight up battle.

I must have watched a different race, then. I saw Alonso in a slower car holding off a much faster RedBull for an epic number of laps until he finally had to give way. Mind you, I thought Vettel's overtake was phenomenal, but to say Alonso was shown up by Vettel is BS. He passed Alonso on lap 48, and by lap 52 he was 6 secs ahead of Alonso. If somebody is that much faster, you can't hold them back forever.

[Waywardism]

That´s the thing. If Hamilton uses less fuel, people say he´s gonna have less in the tank.
And therefore have the same exact margins as Rosberg to finish the race but it´s always Rosberg that gets told he´s on the limit.

If the margins is the same you would expect both to get a somewhat equal amounts of radio messages about saving fuel.
Or am i missing something? Probably am.

I´ve only heard the usual from Hamilton´s radio saying "yea save a little bit in Tx"

But usually when it´s Rosberg it´s "ok fuel is critical, you need to save fuel"

I've noticed this more so in the last few races where Nico has started in front, it seemed more even in those 4 races that Hamilton won. My guess is that Nico is pushing extra hard to create a gap and thus going beyond his normal fuel usage.

[SectorOne]

Not finish line but timing beacon line. finish line is much further up the road.

No, the finish line is where you marked the timing beacon line. The reason the start line and the finish line are in different places is so that the stewards can tell who won if the timing systems fail - it's right outside the stewards' window.

That makes perfect sense, thanks.

[NTS]

I must have watched a different race, then. I saw Alonso in a slower car holding off a much faster RedBull for an epic number of laps until he finally had to give way.

The Ferrari was faster this race, you could see that it was pulling away on the straights even when DRS on the Red Bull was open. So it looks like the Ferrari engine is less of a disaster than the Renault.

The driving of both was impressive. The complaining was much less impressive... "He went out of track limits!1!!" Is not something you can shout after doing it yourself lap after lap. And "he didn't leave space" was also stupid since he had all the right to shut the door.

But with the audio on mute this was a nice part of the race to watch =D>

[beelsebob]

I must have watched a different race, then. I saw Alonso in a slower car holding off a much faster RedBull for an epic number of laps until he finally had to give way.

The Ferrari was faster this race,

Right, that's why Vettel immediately pulled out 2 seconds a lap after passing...

you could see that it was pulling away on the straights even when DRS on the Red Bull was open.

Right, that's how Vettel was often along side at the end of straights.

[Dragonfly]

I must have watched a different race, then. I saw Alonso in a slower car holding off a much faster RedBull for an epic number of laps until he finally had to give way. Mind you, I thought Vettel's overtake was phenomenal, but to say Alonso was shown up by Vettel is BS. He passed Alonso on lap 48, and by lap 52 he was 6 secs ahead of Alonso. If somebody is that much faster, you can't hold them back forever.

I can't understand why some people, considered racing fans, fail to acknowledge that there is a difference between a car that's capable of doing lower lap times on clear track and cumulative speed and a car which is not able to gain on another on a straight even with DRS open.
Because speed advantage, even a tiny one is needed to make an overtaking move stick.
If you need an example look at Bottas. That's a faster car.

[Shrieker]

If he had no issue at all prior to lap 20 then i think he was never going to win this race. Frankly if i would have to guess where things might have gone wrong would be lap 9 and onwards because that´s when Hamilton just started reeling him in.

I guess he blew his tires and was so marginal on fuel his pace was already set by that while Hamilton perhaps did not have to save fuel as much and could attack more into braking zones.

It wasn't the tyres. If me memory serves me correct, Rosberg gave the first hint of his gearbox trouble by radioing in that some of his downshifts were problematic - this radio message which i speak of was played on live feed as early as right when Hamilton started closing the gap or just after (in the first stint).

If someone can watch the rewind of the race it can be confirmed. This message was played no later than lap 14-15 and quite possibly as early as lap 10-11. That's the window to look at if me memory is not deceiving me.

[JimClarkFan]

I must have watched a different race, then. I saw Alonso in a slower car holding off a much faster RedBull for an epic number of laps until he finally had to give way. Mind you, I thought Vettel's overtake was phenomenal, but to say Alonso was shown up by Vettel is BS. He passed Alonso on lap 48, and by lap 52 he was 6 secs ahead of Alonso. If somebody is that much faster, you can't hold them back forever.

I can't understand why some people, considered racing fans, fail to acknowledge that there is a difference between a car that's capable of doing lower lap times on clear track and cumulative speed and a car which is not able to gain on another on a straight even with DRS open.
Because speed advantage, even a tiny one is needed to make an overtaking move stick.
If you need an example look at Bottas. That's a faster car.

Please stop making out that Vettel did not have a speed advantage with the DRS open - he quite obviously did as evidenced by the fact that he gained on the straights.

As usual the truth is somewhere in between, expert defensive driving from Alonso, against a red bull which has always been slower on the straights.

[djos]

So what's Vettel's excuse for being beaten by Daniel again?

He only had a 5 place starting advantage!

[SectorOne]

It wasn't the tyres. If me memory serves me correct, Rosberg gave the first hint of his gearbox trouble by radioing in that some of his downshifts were problematic - this radio message which i speak of was played on live feed as early as right when Hamilton started closing the gap or just after (in the first stint).

If someone can watch the rewind of the race it can be confirmed. This message was played no later than lap 14-15 and quite possibly as early as lap 10-11. That's the window to look at if me memory is not deceiving me.

I´ll download the pit radio transmissions tomorrow and have a listen, usually they show much more then what is broadcasted.
Also F1Fanatic i know had pit radio transmissions from Austria so that might be a good source to look at when/if they get it up.


Edit: found this,

(Paddy)

"It was a real blow to lose Nico's car: there was an early sign of a problem with a strange downshift, then it went away for 10 laps before recurring. We tried to change settings to remedy the situation but ultimately he lost drive and had to retire.

http://en.espnf1.com/greatbritain/motor ... MP=OTC-RSS

Still no figure on exactly when it first happened. Or even when it stopped for those 10 laps.
Note though that he says "early".

[zeph]

I must have watched a different race, then. I saw Alonso in a slower car holding off a much faster RedBull for an epic number of laps until he finally had to give way. Mind you, I thought Vettel's overtake was phenomenal, but to say Alonso was shown up by Vettel is BS. He passed Alonso on lap 48, and by lap 52 he was 6 secs ahead of Alonso. If somebody is that much faster, you can't hold them back forever.

I can't understand why some people, considered racing fans, fail to acknowledge that there is a difference between a car that's capable of doing lower lap times on clear track and cumulative speed and a car which is not able to gain on another on a straight even with DRS open.
Because speed advantage, even a tiny one is needed to make an overtaking move stick.

Thank you for explaining you need a faster car to overtake, racing just started making a whole lot more sense to me.

Vettel obviously had the speed, even on the straights. With the DRS, he had +10km/h on Alonso, as the on-screen speedometers indicated.
And he eventually got past him, which -by your logic- proves that he had a speed advantage, since that is needed to make an overtaking move stick.