Mclaren Mercedes 2014

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turbof1
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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This year we see a McLaren with a inherent lack of downforce, the 2013 car had the same issue. The front-wing is maxed out and the drivers are still complaining about the lack of downforce. The lack of downforce means that they can't generate as much G-force the keep the tyre in the right window. Thats why McLaren was almost 2 seconds slower during qualifying then Mercedes on a high downforce track like Suzuka. ScarbsF1 explained that in one of his latest video about updates.
Last year they had to remove downforce in order to get the car driveable. By the time of Abu Dhabi, the moment you are referring to, they found ways to run full rear downforce again. This meant they didn't have a correct type of wing, and because it was so late in the season, it mattered little to design a new wing with more downforce. Also note they struggled back then with front downforce, almost unseen in nowadays f1 as the limiting factor is rear downforce, the issue they are having this year.

The 2013 car never had a shortage of peak downforce, the issue was they rarely could use it since their diffuser was stalling. They had to remove downforce. Oh wait turbof1, does that sound familiar? Yes son it does, mercedes did the same in 2012.

The current car indeed has a lack of downforce. It's still a learning year. They'll get to it. The biggest releave is that they aren't facing the same issues as last year: the car is very stable! Last year they came to realisation their concept of front wing wasn't working (I personally think it didn't redirected the airflow well enough in order to get better vortices sealing the floor). In Spain they slapped on a wing that was better at managing airflow structures, but had much less AoA. This year you see them running much more angle and much complexer wing.
#AeroFrodo

kooleracer
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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turbof1 wrote:
I have to disagree with you. Mercedes and Red Bull showed that 2013 should have been a evolution of the 2012 car. Both found 1 - 2 seconds improvement over the winter, by perfecting the Coanda-exhaust for example. To discontinue to develop the fastest car at he end of the seasons shows the incompetence of the McLaren management. A lot of important people in the F1 paddock were shocked by their "bold" decision. McLaren should have won the 2013 title, but because of stupid/weak/incompetent management they struggeld in 2013 and know again in 2014 because the wasted resources for 2014. Because they were building a totally new car for 2013 when, the biggest rule changes in F1 were about the start in 2014.
Mercedes and Red Bull had the correct philosophies already (infact Red Bull was the father of the philosophy, going back to 2009).
Mclaren on the other hand were a bit different. Stiff suspension, low noses and a front wing designed more for peak downforce production then airflow management. And that worked for them, until they hit the limits of it in 2012.

The MP4-28 was eventually quicker then the MP4-27, and Whitmarsh openly told that the MP4-27 hit the development limit. They COULDN'T significantly develop the MP4-27 further.

2013 was a failure in the making for several years already. They had to switch to the philosophy with the most potentional eventually and had to fail that year. And they still deal with the same issues today, but they are starting to get fully on top of it. Perhaps you could afterwards say that they didn't have the right people to make that jump, but I think Neal did what he could with the resources he had.
That is called incompetent management. A manager should "manage" or optimize the resources available and not waste them. The Mercedes W05 was started 3-4 years a go. McLaren have developed the 2012 car for 2013 and started with the 2014 a year earlier. Now they have wasted 2 years without winning a championship. Great management....of course its not only Neale but he decided to build a new car for 2013 and the snowball he created is still rolling.
A lot of what was learned in 2013 was passed over to the MP4-29. Especially concerning front wing design 2013 was a learning year.
Remember, they had to go from this:
http://www.grandprix247.com/wp-content/ ... 6no294.jpg
to this:
http://media.crash.net/original/PAPHOTO4_528526.jpg
which has evolved into this:
http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/McL ... 816539.jpg
The 2013 front-wing doesn't a bare a resemblance to the 2014 wing whats so ever. That isn't strange because 99.9% of the 2014 car was redesign anyway. So that comparission or learing curve you are talking about is nonsense. The aero-rules of 2013 was about greating a much downforce. But the 2014 aero rules for the front wing are about getting air the the difusser but the the challenge of the wake of the air being distorted by the tires because of the smaller front wings.



W03
Image

W04
Image


RB8
Image

RB9
Image

Thats how small the development was from 2012 to 2013. So like I said wrong decision, made by the "directors". You can't learn from the 2013 car because the 2014 was a standalone project that's why teams started 2 or 3 years before. If you could carry parts over the 2014 car then all teams would have pushed in the 2013 season and not only Red Bull. 2015 is like 2012 and 2013, so McLaren has a lot of catching up to do after wasting their resources on 2013.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."

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turbof1
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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You are wrong. Concerning airflow around the Y250 axis, the most important for underbody flow, the solution remain similar. Your own pictures prove that; just look at how the solution of red bull around that axis is similar to that of last year, compared to pictures this year.

The same with mclaren. Compare pictures, around the place where the main plane connects to the neutral section.

Some pictures:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Tell me which picture differs in the green circled part. FYI, Mclaren ran the pre -013Spain solution for 3 years and a few months.
#AeroFrodo

Sasha
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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The new aero guy from RB is now fixing that front wing.His wing will be on the MP4/29 at the last race.

Richard
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Regarding Sam Michael, he joined Mclaren to work on the sporting aspects. I very much doubt he had a role in the car development. Remember be joined after the season with Button's blocked radiator at Monaco and various loose or missing wheels. It seems McLaren haven't made silly mistakes like that since Michael joined. The team seems relatively united too. There haven't been major race strategy WTF moments either.

My impression is that Michael is competent at his job, a safe pair of hands but he doesn't seem to be the forthright leader to lead radical change. Perhaps a reliable deputy for the TP.

Also note that he handed in his notice in March. If he was being sacked or thought to be below par then he'd have left as soon as he handed in his notice. Equally he probably wasn't part of the succession plan because McLaren would have fought to keep him.

Trocola
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Richard wrote:Regarding Sam Michael, he joined Mclaren to work on the sporting aspects. I very much doubt he had a role in the car development. Remember be joined after the season with Button's blocked radiator at Monaco and various loose or missing wheels. It seems McLaren haven't made silly mistakes like that since Michael joined. The team seems relatively united too. There haven't been major race strategy WTF moments either.

My impression is that Michael is competent at his job, a safe pair of hands but he doesn't seem to be the forthright leader to lead radical change. Perhaps a reliable deputy for the TP.

Also note that he handed in his notice in March. If he was being sacked or thought to be below par then he'd have left as soon as he handed in his notice. Equally he probably wasn't part of the succession plan because McLaren would have fought to keep him.
It was in 2012 that they had a lot of pit stop mistakes.

Richard
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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I've double checked this. They had the horrors I remembered in 2010 and 2011. Michael changed things for 2012 which led to some teething errors. In the long term those changes seem to fix the problems of the previous years. Unfortunately 2012 was the year they had a decent car so they lost a lot of points and potential podium finishes.
Sam Michael in 2012 wrote:What we’ve done is work a lot on equipment, and also the people. We brought a lot of things like retained wheel nuts, quick release jacks, a traffic light system, so really we’ve been on an upward curve on equipment to get it right. We’ve changed a lot of people around as well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... encia.html

JoeE
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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He may have improved a few things, but at the end of the day hes a bloody jinx - be gone with you at last =D>

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KingHamilton01
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Seem's Promodru has already started to work his magic on the McLaren front wing! good news we are pushing hard and will have a new one by last race of the season which will be double point's. Be interesting to see what else's he Flag's up on the car and can re-design before end of season if possible.
McLaren Mercedes

bhall II
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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sniffpetrol.com wrote:McLaren has announced that Sam Michael is to step down as sporting director at the end of the season because the team is now ‘more than crap enough’.

‘Before we brought Sam on board we were dangerously close to winning world championships,’ admitted a Woking insider. ‘Thankfully, with his experience of making Williams completely rubbish, we were able to become the disappointing team we are today with a level of mediocrity we could only get from Sam. Or perhaps a Peugeot engine.’

‘We are delighted with the soul-crushing dismalness we have achieved and that’s why it’s the right time for Sam to leave his role as sporking director,’ explained another high ranking source. ‘Of course, we are aware of what happened at Williams after Sam left. They became quite good. But hopefully our new Honda engine won’t work properly and we’ll be able to maintain this level of depressingly poor performance in his absence.’

‘We are sorry to see Sam Michael leave his role as spurting director,’ said an official McLaren statement. ‘In particular, team personnel will miss their regular games of trying to guess what the --- he actually does around here’.
:lol:

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diffuser
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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bhall II wrote:
sniffpetrol.com wrote:McLaren has announced that Sam Michael is to step down as sporting director at the end of the season because the team is now ‘more than crap enough’.

‘Before we brought Sam on board we were dangerously close to winning world championships,’ admitted a Woking insider. ‘Thankfully, with his experience of making Williams completely rubbish, we were able to become the disappointing team we are today with a level of mediocrity we could only get from Sam. Or perhaps a Peugeot engine.’

‘We are delighted with the soul-crushing dismalness we have achieved and that’s why it’s the right time for Sam to leave his role as sporking director,’ explained another high ranking source. ‘Of course, we are aware of what happened at Williams after Sam left. They became quite good. But hopefully our new Honda engine won’t work properly and we’ll be able to maintain this level of depressingly poor performance in his absence.’

‘We are sorry to see Sam Michael leave his role as spurting director,’ said an official McLaren statement. ‘In particular, team personnel will miss their regular games of trying to guess what the --- he actually does around here’.
:lol:
That isn't nice #-o

sectionate
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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diffuser wrote:
bhall II wrote:
sniffpetrol.com wrote:McLaren has announced that Sam Michael is to step down as sporting director at the end of the season because the team is now ‘more than crap enough’.

‘Before we brought Sam on board we were dangerously close to winning world championships,’ admitted a Woking insider. ‘Thankfully, with his experience of making Williams completely rubbish, we were able to become the disappointing team we are today with a level of mediocrity we could only get from Sam. Or perhaps a Peugeot engine.’

‘We are delighted with the soul-crushing dismalness we have achieved and that’s why it’s the right time for Sam to leave his role as sporking director,’ explained another high ranking source. ‘Of course, we are aware of what happened at Williams after Sam left. They became quite good. But hopefully our new Honda engine won’t work properly and we’ll be able to maintain this level of depressingly poor performance in his absence.’

‘We are sorry to see Sam Michael leave his role as spurting director,’ said an official McLaren statement. ‘In particular, team personnel will miss their regular games of trying to guess what the --- he actually does around here’.
:lol:
That isn't nice #-o
Satire

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mclaren111
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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TJ13 Reports:

"Reports reached TJ13 from Japan late last night that Honda’s president and 12 other senior execs would take an unprecedented, quality-related pay cut. “We have inconvenienced Mclaren and we are deeply sorry” announced Honda spokeswoman Akemi Ando.

For the past few months it seems that Honda have been struggling with reliability, fuel consumption and the Italian sites believed that they were at least six months behind schedule. Woking produced an updated MP4/29 especially for the Abu Dhabi test but it seems as Honda sources suggested a few weeks back that the engine will run for the first time in the 2015 Jerez tests.

As yet, there is no truth to any rumours that Akai, Honda’s motor-sport boss has had to cut back on the sushi and rice but the hybrid unit he is responsible for hasn’t been run in anger yet..."

If true, this is not good news :oops: :(

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lio007
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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akshat21
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Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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lio007 wrote:http://thejudge13.com/#Honda%20apologie ... d%20issues

This was a TJ13-joke, wasn't it?
Yea.. Am pretty sure this a joke.