Manor Marussia F1 Team 2015

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turbof1
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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RicME85 wrote:More than just the nose, there was crash structure changes to iirc.
It is still only the frontal crash structure that needs to be changed. Since that sits inside the nose, and they need to change the nose anyway, it's less a problem then you'd think.
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FW17
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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BBC says that the front bulkhead is 50mm lower 2015; I thought that was the rule change from 2013 to 2014


Anyway if the buyer is serious about competing then he should not be expecting this charity.

Manoah2u
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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indeed, the last thing F1 needs is the [dead] remains of a former F1 team that, despite their best and good efforts, did not manage to survive, ala HRT before it's demise. I vividly remember the dangers HRT imposed to their drivers, other F1 drivers, and the teams [think about pitstops], by having a car that was essentially falling apart due to wear. They used old brakes, remember that? Rosberg slamming in the back of the HRT? that could have ended a whole lot worse than it did.

As sad as it is, it's over. The only 'valuable' asset that Manor/Marissia and Caterham/Whatever holds is their grid slots. All else is - as hard as it sounds - useless. You could start from scratch with nothing but the grid slots. Unfortunately now, it's too late for 2015 season. There is no time to construct a chassis. Everything else can be bought, ala haas-style. Brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, electronics, engine, gearbox, etc. But the chassis is essential and that's just it. I'm not even sure about buying the parts though, might only be allowed as of 2016 that way, but i could be mistaken here.

The only option to have a marussia on the grid for 2015 would have been if the 'investors' / 'buyers' would have gotten their hands on the actual 2015 marussia car/design/intellectual property - which if im correct is in the hands of Haas F1.

Since that is out of the question, there is simply no future.

That means 4 less cars on the grid for 2015. Interestingly, if Force India does not sort out, then aren't we going to see Ferrari, Mclaren and RedBull having to add a 3rd car?

Are we then indeed going to see Vergne in the 3rd Ferrari car? Magnussen in the 3rd Mclaren? And who's gonna take the 3rd RedBull seat? Buemi?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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FW17
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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The only option to have a marussia on the grid for 2015 would have been if the 'investors' / 'buyers' would have gotten their hands on the actual 2015 marussia car/design/intellectual property - which if im correct is in the hands of Haas F1.
Haas did not buy it

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turbof1
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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I can't remember that the bulkhead got further lowered for this, but if true then they indeed need a new chassis.
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Jonnycraig
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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Statement this morning saying that their request was rejected due to lack of evidence regarding ownership, finances etc to see out the season.

The prize money will now be split between the other teams.

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WaikeCU
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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Of course they reject Manor, because the other teams want their money. If I was Bernie, I would hold on to that money and invest it in the lower Formula's.

KeiKo403
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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Teams like Force India need to realsie that with fewer and fewer teams on the grid and with actions like rejecting Marussia/Manor's latest bid for a come back is only going to give them short-term returns. Lets face it, teams don't put money on table.....Bernie & Sponsors give the teams money to go racing, sponsers give for exposure, Bernie gives from TV revenues. Like I said....short-term returns!

At this point F1 doesn't just need small teams, It needs teams full stop! Especially Teams like Marussia/Maror who are trying to jump through hoops to give jobs and livelihoods to well educated people (REAL PEOPLE!) who sacrifice precious time with families for the good of this sport, our sport!

For the record, I've just unfollowed ForceInda/Vijay & both drivers. (Sorry Hulkenberg)

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turbof1
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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Also to note: this has been voted in the strategy group. So the only teams that actually voted were Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams and Force India. I don't understand how this needed to be an unanimous vote since the strategy group always decides by majority.
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WaikeCU
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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turbof1 wrote:Also to note: this has been voted in the strategy group. So the only teams that actually voted were Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams and Force India. I don't understand how this needed to be an unanimous vote since the strategy group always decides by majority.
EDIT:
Yeah the word is that FI was one of the party that rejected Manor to start with their 2014 configuration car for the start of the season. I think FI has long term financial issues, but this signals that even short term they are struggling to manage anything at all. So they desperately need financial input. Troublesome indeed.
Last edited by WaikeCU on Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jonnycraig
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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turbof1 wrote:Also to note: this has been voted in the strategy group. So the only teams that actually voted were Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams and Force India. I don't understand how this needed to be an unanimous vote since the strategy group always decides by majority.
Even with a majority they would've failed:
Bernie Ecclestone wrote:“They wanted to come in with last year’s car and it didn’t get accepted,” Ecclestone said. “It needed all the teams to agree and there were three or four of them that didn’t agree.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/moto ... 27499.html

As a cynic, there are 3 Merc teams in there and a Renault team, who wouldn't want another Ferrari data machine on the grid.

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iotar__
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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KeiKo403 wrote:Teams like Force India need to realsie that with fewer and fewer teams on the grid and with actions like rejecting Marussia/Manor's latest bid for a come back is only going to give them short-term returns. Lets face it, teams don't put money on table.....Bernie & Sponsors give the teams money to go racing, sponsers give for exposure, Bernie gives from TV revenues. Like I said....short-term returns!

At this point F1 doesn't just need small teams, It needs teams full stop! Especially Teams like Marussia/Maror who are trying to jump through hoops to give jobs and livelihoods to well educated people (REAL PEOPLE!) who sacrifice precious time with families for the good of this sport, our sport!
It's Ecclestone leaking info so not that reliable. The less teams the better is not only about money for Force India. Even If it's true you can't blame them, it seems like they are fighting for short-term survival (bills), they have no choice and I'd rather see them getting some money than Manor/Marussia. They invested a lot and added to F1's sporting value while competing with much bigger teams (McLaren) and bankrolling their failure along with some other teams.

F1 needs mid-field and upper mid-field teams with ambitions much more than any temporary, last gasp poor attempt to save a back-marker. I'm talking about Lotus, FI, Sauber or Williams (although they get money for nothing from Ecclestone too).

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turbof1
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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Jonnycraig wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Also to note: this has been voted in the strategy group. So the only teams that actually voted were Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams and Force India. I don't understand how this needed to be an unanimous vote since the strategy group always decides by majority.
Even with a majority they would've failed:
Bernie Ecclestone wrote:“They wanted to come in with last year’s car and it didn’t get accepted,” Ecclestone said. “It needed all the teams to agree and there were three or four of them that didn’t agree.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/moto ... 27499.html

As a cynic, there are 3 Merc teams in there and a Renault team, who wouldn't want another Ferrari data machine on the grid.
Yes, but that's where I don't get it. He says all teams have to agree, yet it only came to the discussion at the strategy group, where only 6 out of 9 teams are seated. The other 3 teams are not welcome at those meetings. If all teams have to agree, then why was it voted at the strategy group?

Whatever reason it has to reject the proposal, I think all possibilities are cynical. I really enjoyed that team you know. Joe Saward wrote that the team probably can skip the first 3 races to get something sorted.

It might not be appropiate for a moderator to say, but I hope they show up at the fourth race with 2015 car, take the price money after all and stick it thoroughly deep at whoever voted against. The likes of Force India and Sauber were always complaining that the interests of the smaller teams aren't protected, yet when the situations arises they have to decide over the fate of the smallest one, they do exactly the same as the big teams. You can argue that it's about their own survival, but I haven't seen any attempt to reach a compromise.
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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Some clarification from FIF1 on Autsport:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117617

I want to see Marussia back but I have to agree with this:

"The fact that the application came in a single-page letter, with no details on team ownership, funding or the support of the administrator, left Fernley believing there was not enough information to justify backing it.

"We don't want to lose teams, but one of the over-riding conditions was that clearly they had to demonstrate the sustainability of their programme and who was behind it," Fernley told AUTOSPORT.

"So what were the finances? When would they go to a 2015 car?

"It needed a proper presentation and proposal that could be considered.

"I don't make any excuses on this: the onus is on the team applying to persuade the other teams."
"


If they cant even put together a proper application then they shouldn't be let in. I still think that somebody may have spotted a quick way to make £30m... Get approval to race, collect the 2014 prize money, disappear.
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

Jonnycraig
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Re: Manor F1 Team 2015

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turbof1 wrote:
Yes, but that's where I don't get it. He says all teams have to agree, yet it only came to the discussion at the strategy group, where only 6 out of 9 teams are seated. The other 3 teams are not welcome at those meetings. If all teams have to agree, then why was it voted at the strategy group?
Well he clearly meant all the teams at the SWG had to agree, and in the slightly warped world of F1, the big teams get to decide the fate of the others.
turbof1 wrote:
Whatever reason it has to reject the proposal, I think all possibilities are cynical. I really enjoyed that team you know. Joe Saward wrote that the team probably can skip the first 3 races to get something sorted.

It might not be appropiate for a moderator to say, but I hope they show up at the fourth race with 2015 car, take the price money after all and stick it thoroughly deep at whoever voted against. The likes of Force India and Sauber were always complaining that the interests of the smaller teams aren't protected, yet when the situations arises they have to decide over the fate of the smallest one, they do exactly the same as the big teams. You can argue that it's about their own survival, but I haven't seen any attempt to reach a compromise.
Force India claim that the main reason the SWG rejected the proposal was because the potential investors couldn't provide any sort of guarantees that they actually had the funds to complete the season. On that front i have a modicum of agreement, as the last thing F1 needs is 'investors' reviving the team, pocketing the prize money, then legging it and leaving everyone in the lurch.

You can be cynical and say FI rejected as they want some more money, but even then, at least 2 'big' teams also rejected the proposal, and let's be honest, the £34m split 9 ways isn't going to touch the sides for anybody.

As said, my cynical belief is that quite simply Mercedes & Renault don't want Ferrari getting another data test bed on the grid, especially with Ferrari having seemingly made a big step forward PU wise already this offseason.

F1 ultimately is a sport of self interest.