10 Year Engine development freez

[Ogami musashi]

I thihk aero will be cut also.

As for the engines, i don't get clearly the meaning of this freeze.

I mean, yes it is surely to keep cost down until we get a new radical powerplant but 10 years is very long.

Again the FIA is not clear with the direction she wants to take.

[checkered]

I believe it is good news, because it allows for a stability that has been lacking in recent years. Freezing the engines doesn't stop development, it allows for refinement of existing design, admittedly with some restriction.
If and when energy recovery is introduced, the development in this area will take up resources, and saving on the engine seems a good way of allowing for these resources. In terms of total fuel efficiency, engergy recovery will probably be a lot more significant than continued engine development, so the environment lobby shouldn't be complaining.

The problem with

this argument is that the very same one was used to justify the current homologation. It wasn't even allowed to run its course (until 2011) to see whether it could've worked. It barely even started. There clearly are people stalling the process and very determined about it. Many semi-retired F1 engine and powertrain gurus (from Cosworth and Ilmor among others) have alredy gone on record to say that at least since the early nineties, many chances to introduce energy recovery devices have been lost already. They certainly had workable ones planned. Sometimes the advances have just been regulated out of existence.

The teams are going to continue to put ridiculous amounts of money into R&D. This freeze just ensures people aren't at liberty to decide where that investment would be most beneficial. It's in a F1 team's interest as well as everyone's interest that efficiency is radically improved. The WMSC, if my impression is correct, stands squarely in the way of this aim with the latest decision. They know new energy recovery devices and powertrains are on the way and will be commercialised in due course. But they've made sure it won't happen through F1 anyway.

I find this very odd.

[Ciro Pabón]

I don't find that as odd as checkered does.

It seems to go together with rules for new teams: it puts greater entry barriers on them, unless they are clients of established teams., or so I think, but I'm suspicious of any "gratuitous" regulation.

[Ogami musashi]

If this freeze really stays for 10 years, then aero cuts won't be done for long time.

It is impossible to have in 2011 this freeze of motors delivering about 700hp while the drag will be cut down by 50%. Cars would run hell too fast.

So either this freeze will be stoped after 5 years or 2011 chassis rules won't see the day.

One note is that the WSMC did some amendements to both 2008 and 2009 technical regulations, and it is said "for full details see http://www.fia.com" but on the regs page the updated regs are not here.

Because i am very curious of the amendements done, especially the 1250kg downforce limitation for 2009...

I didn't see any email for contacting the FIA about that, so i hope they will upload the soon.

Still this total freeze is odd to me.

[persovik]

The latest posts seems to indicate that there is a belief that engine freeze stops regenerative systems. I fail to make that connection, as regeneration is wholly independent of the power unit.

[Belatti]

Does anyone know how the MAX ENGINE POWER (i think 350HP) rule in World Rally Championship works?

I only know that is an old rule that teams had overcome by designing engines with a plain torque curve form low to high RPM.

I know, I know, rally is not as exiting and as a technology pinnacle like F1 is, TILL NOW..........

[Ogami musashi]

persovik: no you're right, that's the contrary, engine freeze is meant to enhance KERS and transmission progresses.

[tomislavp4]

with theese engines + regenerative systems + reduced drag we´ll see some serious top speed in a near future-once again fia is saying something but does something completly different

Although the regenerative systems placement & size will be crucial for good aero

I don´t think we´ll se regenerative sys. in atleast 5 years time, they´ll make some new rule to downpower the engines first and than add reg.sys.

[Giblet]

You guys are mostly talking like all regs are frozen.

There is nothing to stop the FIA mandating wing height adustments and wing sizes etc year by year to lower these speeds.

Engine development frozen = constant baseline to work from.

[tomislavp4]

FIA said that the drag will be reduced by 50% (in 2011??), don´t you recall?

[Ogami musashi]

I think both of us are right in that this freeze poses questions about the future chassis regs.

If going accordingly to the plans the drag will be reduced in those cases:

-By 2009 if the max downforce is bring back to MAX 1250KG (as opposed to 1500kg from todays high downforce tracks) this will lower the induced drag taking part in the total drag.
-By 2009 if the OWG already tested and apporved revamp are done, that is the narrower rear wing (less form drag), the lower front wing (less induced drag) and banning of barge board and appendices.
-By 2011 If the undertray is adopted rear and front wing will go even smaller (less form drag).
-By 2011 if adaptive aero are used(less drag overall)
-By 2011 if the downforce is reduced to 800KG (as planned)(less induced)
-By 2011 if the overlapping surfaces are prohibited (less parasite drag)

The source of higher drag are:

-By 2009 if the track is widened to 2meters (form drag)
-By 2009 if the slicks are bigger (form drag)


Those two parameters will easily outpower by all the gain cited above plus any reshaping of the cars.

FIA estimated that with the 2011 planned regulations the cars would need not to have more than 520HP to retain the speeds, those 520hp being engine+KERS so imagine a 700HP engine+KERS..


Now minimum weight could be increased by i doubt it because FIA made it clear that for the security standards the lesser weight the car the safer (because of less energy).

So i'm realllllyyyyyyyyyyyy curious about all those regs that will come.

[Carlos]

As long as the new rules don't make the cars look like this

[IMG:590:342]http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6519 ... t68cz5.jpg[/img]


EDIT OCT 26th - Tom, looking at the picture you posted below, I would like to comment that I can't imagine an F1 car surviving but must add that anti-gravity drive will not be allowed by the proposed new F1 engine rules

[modbaraban]

[rsfocus]

I know, I know, rally is not as exiting and as a technology pinnacle like F1 is, TILL NOW..........

have you had a good look at the world rally car regs? just cos they are in a sedan shell doesnt mean they are not advanced...

but yeah, 10 years, i guess they will allow other types of power plants to be used but the current 2.4 v8 is frozen, anyway, it wont be 10 years as they have said there is an option to change at 5 years.

[Tom]

I know, I know, rally is not as exiting and as a technology pinnacle like F1 is

Can an F1 car survive this?


Poor Michael Park went through alot.