2016 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, Fri 01 – Sun 03 Jul 2016

[Fulcrum]

People saying Ted is biased like he is the only 1 doing it. Clearly not, so anyone who has a problem with Ted, either shut up, or watch F1 else where.

The people commentating WITH him were wondering what he was talking about, openly questioning him on air.

Suggesting the crowd, who are far more ignorant than Kravitz, who don't have a reasonable mandate to be objective, who don't have the ability to comment and be heard to the same degree, who don't get paid for comment, are a reasonable measure of comparison for bias is laughable.

Who suggested the crowd ? I said about the track side commentators blaming Lewis. I think every sky presenter/commentator blamed Nico. Not just Ted. Ted was sticking it to Toto to try and get more info from him. Where are you watching from ?

I'm not talking about the ending. I'm 100% in the Rosberg was clumsy camp, and Hamilton did well to get out of this alive - win deserved.

I'm commenting on Ted's comments during the middle of the race where Rosberg was in front of Hamilton (by 2 seconds) and Ted was suggesting that Mercedes needed to switch them otherwise it would be 'unfair'.

[siskue2005]

[GrandAxe]

Toto Wolff says they couldn't get on the radio to warn Rosberg about his bad brakes, so how come they could get on the radio in the very same race to warn Lewis that he was marginal with suspension at turn 9? Toto also said both cars were affected, but Lewis said his brakes were fine, not in any danger; to further buttress that point, he also said that their cars have a warning light which never came on in his car. These things don't stand Toto Wolff in the brightest light.
There is only so far Mercedes can blame radio regulations for obvious driver decisions before the publics ears begin to "hear" a different story to what Mercedes is telling.

Together with the law of averages over the season so far and for this race, the funny strategy calls as well as Lewis losing 3.3 seconds (cumulative) in the pits to Rosberg, Mercedes might be in danger of being perceived to be contriving an unfair WDC. If there are really any games being played, it would only be because Mercedes cars have such a huge advantage over all others, which would give them the confidence to almost hold the rest of the field to such contempt that they can roll dice on their drivers.

Therefore, good engineers at Mercedes or not, something urgently needs to be done to equalise the field. An exemplary punishment also needs to be handed out for the infractions committed in this race, both to the guilty driver and to the team that allowed a dangerous car to be driven around the track. The FIA's weak leadership is allowing too many shenanigans.

[Gaz.]

Looks to me like Hamilton was nowhere near being pushed off the track at the moment he initiated his turn...

http://i.imgur.com/cekMWNU.jpg

Being kept off-line is not the same thing as being pushed off-track.

In any case, it's a damn good thing that Mercedes produces high-quality power units. In a race against legitimate competition, the team's hopes would regularly be dashed by inadequate driver management and/or inept race strategy.

Luckily we know what running someone off the road at that corner and outbraking oneself actually looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSipCiyVucY

Is this what Rosberg did? No penalties for the above incident either.

Lets be fair here, you're comparing someone who locked up and ran someone wide, with someone who didn't even attempt to turn their car.

[NathanOlder]

Looks to me like Hamilton was nowhere near being pushed off the track at the moment he initiated his turn...

http://i.imgur.com/cekMWNU.jpg

Being kept off-line is not the same thing as being pushed off-track.

In any case, it's a damn good thing that Mercedes produces high-quality power units. In a race against legitimate competition, the team's hopes would regularly be dashed by inadequate driver management and/or inept race strategy.

Luckily we know what running someone off the road at that corner and outbraking oneself actually looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSipCiyVucY

Is this what Rosberg did? No penalties for the above incident either.

Difference is JPM got with a foot of the apex and attempted to turn in as normal. He lost the rear under breaking but he did everything he could to get the car to the apex. Today Nico did nothing to attempt to get to the apex.

[GrizzleBoy]

both have been called to the steward for allegedly causing a collision, and Nico also for breaching the "code of driving conduct"

http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-o ... nformation

Very interesting that no decisions have been made this long after the incident, as well as fresh investigations flagged up against Hamilton after the race.

Will be interesting if Nico gets nothing for both instances, as well as the fact that Lewis has no reprimand chances left.

[bhall II]

Luckily we know what running someone off the road at that corner and outbraking oneself actually looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSipCiyVucY

Is this what Rosberg did? No penalties for the above incident either.

Oh, please don't show me videos that feature compelling cars and orgasmic sounds. I've not yet recovered from the breakup.

[Phil]

I fear (and feel) Mercedes is just trying to protect their result now. They came out with the brake problems in an extremely public fashion as if to hint to Rosberg that one could blame the state of the brakes for the collision. I don't buy it though and it doesn't explain why Rosberg didn't turn in, if not with the clear aim to push Hamilton off the track.

[ringo]

Any how, Herbert, brundle, Davidson all have stated not only was it Rosberg's fault, it was intentional to punt Lewis.
If all can draw such a damning conclusion i am no longer arguing why Nico is wrong, i am now wondering if he deserves grid penalties or a race ban for such dirty driving. I haven't seen such dastardly driving since shumacher.

For those of you who are supporting nico on this, you have no grounds and don't understand how proper overtaking is done. Nico simply doesn't know how to defend legally, we have seen too many examples with this guy defending and crashing.
You only screen a driver before the braking zone, or on exiting the turn.
You don't push or punt out a car on the outside in the braking zone or in the middle of the turn on the apex.
It's these simple steps Nico fails to understand.
Hamilton in USA and Canada was a steady out sweep, in plain vision by both drivers and before or after the apex of the turn. No drama there and no intention to cause a collision.
Nico wanted to collide in this instance.

[NathanOlder]

The people commentating WITH him were wondering what he was talking about, openly questioning him on air.

Suggesting the crowd, who are far more ignorant than Kravitz, who don't have a reasonable mandate to be objective, who don't have the ability to comment and be heard to the same degree, who don't get paid for comment, are a reasonable measure of comparison for bias is laughable.

Who suggested the crowd ? I said about the track side commentators blaming Lewis. I think every sky presenter/commentator blamed Nico. Not just Ted. Ted was sticking it to Toto to try and get more info from him. Where are you watching from ?

I'm not talking about the ending. I'm 100% in the Rosberg was clumsy camp, and Hamilton did well to get out of this alive - win deserved.

I'm commenting on Ted's comments during the middle of the race where Rosberg was in front of Hamilton (by 2 seconds) and Ted was suggesting that Mercedes needed to switch them otherwise it would be 'unfair'.

Fair enough I didnt realise you were talking about that mid race comment. My bad, apologies .

[void]

I had to agree with LW, he left a lot of room to Nicko. . And we can see on onboard footage that Nicko's engine was in higher RPM than LH on the moment of crash. But I don't know if this is was caused by "brake failure".

[iotar__]

You still haven't answered my question. Did Hamilton have any other tyres other than the Softs he ultimately used? If he had other options, I agree that those could/should have been used. If he had nothing else you're complaining about nothing.

Hamilton was on a 1-stop to counter Vettel. Vettel's tyre blew up and Hamilton's strategy was collateral damage as a result.

Pitting Hamilton a second time was probably unnecessary, but with 12-15 laps to go, if Rosberg had pitted and Hamilton stayed out, we could be having this discussion in reverse (Hamilton defending a fast charging Rosberg).

How can you keep talking about the Softs being the inferior tyre when this was patently not the case. Hamilton can question the decision, but as evidenced by the massive degradation on Rosberg's car, and many others, Soft tyres were far superior today. Hamilton is not a tyre expert, nor a strategist.

His team actually gave him the best tyres under the circumstances, and we wouldn't even be talking about the accident if Lewis hadn't locked a brake and his wheel gunner had been marginally quicker.

It mostly makes sense apart from couple: "Pitting Hamilton a second time was probably unnecessary, but with 12-15 laps to go, if Rosberg had pitted and Hamilton stayed out, we could be having this discussion in reverse" What do you mean unnecessary? Decision to pit them both was connected not independent. Rosberg was leading, why didn't he pit first? It was Hamilton that needed this pitstop and tyre change not Rosberg and you can be sure they knew what they were doing: undercut, tyres available and pace difference between them. Hypothetically - they are both staying they keep the position although extra stop was safer for both.

"we wouldn't even be talking about the accident if Lewis hadn't locked a brake and his wheel gunner had been marginally quicker" How about without putting Rosberg early into traffic on softs or pitting him later, or his brake by wire working, or with Hamilton going off track or Merc putting them on the same tyres or Hamilton being quicker on 1st stint on softs, or without safety car. We wouldn't be talking about something.

Theories against all the reality that SS were better - I don't know what to say, it's always like that, just add some completely wrong element just for the sake of it, to dilute and clog.

Together with the law of averages over the season so far and for this race, the funny strategy calls as well as Lewis losing 3.3 seconds (cumulative) in the pits to Rosberg, Mercedes might be in danger of being perceived to be contriving an unfair WDC

I suggest you checking Monaco pit stop times, how much it cost (positions) and team orders. High danger indeed.

[Mattchu]

Mercedes, specifically the team bosses really do think we`re not a full shilling. They come up with all sorts of fairy tails which no one can prove or disprove. They know exactly what happened but just give us pr spiel about some failure/isuue!

Button has to be up there for drive of the day (along with Werlein), made more of the car under him than many expected, didn`t get into daft squabbles and drove well...

p.s. It seems the soft tyre was much the better race tyre per a performance to deg ratio, wasn`t the fastest lap set on the soft :p

[nevill3]

To suggest Mercedes favoured any of their drivers is laughable, to any ture fan it was obvious that Lewis started out with a planned 1 stop strategy and after Nico's start he was converted to a two stop strategy to jump the cars in front. Lewis stretched his first stint to allow the one stop but after Vettels blow out a more conservative two stop was then adopted. With both drivers still needing to pit Lewis as the defacto leader was given the first of the second stops to allow "the undercut" howver a slightly slower pitstop and a minor mistake on his out lap left Lewis behind Nico after the second stops. That's racing, it happens all the time if Lewis had not gone wide on his outlap he would have probably been ahead. I don't believe there was any malicous plan to sabotage one or the other. The final lap incident was unnecessary and may now mean Mercedes will call time on the "let them race" policy and insist on the status quo being maintained after the final pit stops if they are running 1&2 with no challenge from behind.

The drivers have brought this on themselves by not respecting Mercedes wishes and not being able to race cleanly. They both have defended and attacked aggressively which has resulted in many points lost. Well done to Manor for scoring a point.

[Fulcrum]

I'm assuming they should have each had sets that are similar, given they both had the same qualifying, equal runs on equal tires. And it still doesn't explain why they pitted both cars, if they knew that one car that needed to pit had already done 11 laps more and was still going well to consider not pitting the other (HAM).

You're assuming wrong. Rosberg had 1 less set of Softs this weekend.

http://i.imgur.com/zCi80e8.png

So why not use a set of Ultra Softs? There should have been a brand new set of something in that garage considering the rain in QF. And you still didn't explain why they pitted him at all? or what was the point of him giving up track position and staying out 11 laps longer?

Because anything other than the Softs was the inferior choice? As evidenced by Hamilton actually having the opportunity to pass Rosberg. If Hamilton had been on literally any other tyre, he would have had massive graining from following Rosberg around and would have fallen away in the last laps. If Rosberg HAD any Soft tyres Mercedes would probably have pitted him onto those as well.

My guess why they pitted Hamilton? The better of two evils is my guess.

Don't pit Hamilton, but pit Rosberg, and Mercedes gets slammed when Rosberg sails past a defenceless Hamilton with 2 laps to go.

So Mercedes pit Hamilton first, giving him the opportunity to legitimately retake the lead with the undercut. The pit stop is not optimal and neither is Hamilton's out lap.

Rosberg puts in a faultless in lap and has a good pitstop, ending up in front. Case closed. Except for the fact that Lewis was on better tyres. 7 laps of wear on Softs is irrelevant when we saw many instances of Softs going 45 laps. After 6 laps the Ultras/Supers were no longer any quicker, and a serious liability thereafter.