2016 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, 08-10 July

[FoxHound]

Max is beginning to overshadow Ricciardo. How long before he is ahead on points?
As for Rosberg, that will most likely come down as driver coaching. According to Horner, his telemetry showed use of all gears after the radio call , including gear 7; therefore, it is debatable that the problem was terminal for the car.

Easy to say after the problem was corrected.

Prior to the correction, the sensor detected failure, hence the issue arising and Rosberg falling backwards.

[FoxHound]

It's 74-64 in favour of Max since he joined Red Bull. In the last four races its 49-34 in his favour. If he hadn't crashed in Monaco he might already be in front - but he did crash in Monaco.

It will be interesting to see how he goes against Ricciardo in Hungary, as Ricciardo is usually very quick there. I would expect Ric. to continue to edge the qualifying situation, but imo Max appears to have a small edge during the races, which would be magnified were he to qualify ahead. Qualifying behind, they appear to be more even than may actually be the case.

Over the course of the season it might depend on how many mistakes Max makes. Ricciardo doesn't make many, he is experienced, he is consistent - he's finished 4th five times in ten races. If Max improves in qualifying and doesn't make any unforced errors, I think he'll come out ahead.

In the main, it's also interesting how Ricciardo's own mentality has slipped from being the chirpy positive one, to being downright unhappy at the situation.

[jknights]

Stewards must have gone for a beer or three!
They are obviously having a long discussion as there is no update to Doc45 as yet!

[Jolle]

With RIC, it must be tough. He should/could have won ESP and MON, then CAN and EUR where whe gap to the mercs was to big and the last two GPs he lost against his teammate.

A serie like that is not good for your self confidence

[Sonador]

The form of Ricciardo this year reminds me a little bit of his Torro Rosso days.
Exceptionel one lap pace, but scruffy races.

Also his attitude changed a bit compared to last 2 years, he is a bit more outspoken about things.
It seems he is a bit under pressure ... http://www.crash.net/f1/news/231985/1/r ... mpaign=rss

Also openly flriting with Ferrari, i found it a bit rude towards his team.

I really like Ricciardo, i hope he gets his act back together an see some good battles with Verstappen

[Fulcrum]

It's 74-64 in favour of Max since he joined Red Bull. In the last four races its 49-34 in his favour. If he hadn't crashed in Monaco he might already be in front - but he did crash in Monaco.

It will be interesting to see how he goes against Ricciardo in Hungary, as Ricciardo is usually very quick there. I would expect Ric. to continue to edge the qualifying situation, but imo Max appears to have a small edge during the races, which would be magnified were he to qualify ahead. Qualifying behind, they appear to be more even than may actually be the case.

Over the course of the season it might depend on how many mistakes Max makes. Ricciardo doesn't make many, he is experienced, he is consistent - he's finished 4th five times in ten races. If Max improves in qualifying and doesn't make any unforced errors, I think he'll come out ahead.

In the main, it's also interesting how Ricciardo's own mentality has slipped from being the chirpy positive one, to being downright unhappy at the situation.

It is an interesting situation. I commented in the team thread about the Verstappen promotion being a lose-lose situation for Ricciardo, and it is proving to be the case so far. They're both top quality, it's just the nature of Verstappen's career trajectory is beginning to take the shine off of Ricciardo's.

Seeing the change in Ricciardo's mood is telling though. I think he knows this is a critical situation for his career. He's got nowhere to jump to, unlike Vettel, and no laurels to rest on either. This Red Bull revival was meant to be 'his time', and now his reign is threatened before it began.

It should make for great viewing though. I don't think he's the type to back down from a challenge, so I hope the degree of competition is maintained for their partnership.

[Restomaniac]

Stewards must have gone for a beer or three!
They are obviously having a long discussion as there is no update to Doc45 as yet!

This must be a worry for Rosberg.
If this was a 'no case to answer' situation I would assume it would have been settled by now.
Maybe it's about the severity.

[Jolle]

Fun thing would be, if they docked Rosberg constructor points, they would hurt the FIA not Mercedes, because you have to pay a fee for every point you've scored the season before. Mercedes is enough ahead that the constructor championship is a certainty.

[jknights]

Stewards must have gone for a beer or three!
They are obviously having a long discussion as there is no update to Doc45 as yet!

This must be a worry for Rosberg.
If this was a 'no case to answer' situation I would assume it would have been settled by now.
Maybe it's about the severity.

Yes and any time penalty will put him behind VES.
I imagine that the team may need to take a penalty as well. I dont know what this could be except a points loss or fine!

[Jolle]

Would he have kept VES behind him with 1-6 gears instead of 1-6 and 8? Looks like "how to shift past 7" is now on trail. Then a 5 second penalty, at least, would be appropriate

[ringo]

Clear breach of the rules for rosberg. It's so funny how the team was so reluctant to even remotely help lewis and then they spill the beans to Nico in a matter of miliseconds.
Anyhow, this is why Nico should be penalized:
1. His car's performance before the assistance was, as stated by horner, visibly slower. After the team radioed him, he followed instructions which instantly improved his cars performance; he got back on the pace right after.

2. The team should have told him "we detect a gearbox failure, shut off the engine", or "gearbox problem detected". That's how you notify a failure. What they did was to tell him exactly what was happening, and exactly how to get out of it.

3. Nico asked about gear changes, and was assisted by being told which gear, and also how to change gear.

All the assistance above helped Nico and prevented Max from naturally overtaking a troubled car. Basically what we saw was driver coaching and race manipulation by mercedes. I don't wrong redbull from feeling cheated.
They should be rewarded for putting together a more reliable car than merc and nico, and also being in the right place when it counts to collect their points.

Mercedes should be punished, and the punishment should result in them losing more points than would demote them to P-3. The result must be lower than P-3 because if the drop to P-3 we can't really call that a punishment.

[FoxHound]

It is an interesting situation. I commented in the team thread about the Verstappen promotion being a lose-lose situation for Ricciardo, and it is proving to be the case so far. They're both top quality, it's just the nature of Verstappen's career trajectory is beginning to take the shine off of Ricciardo's.

Seeing the change in Ricciardo's mood is telling though. I think he knows this is a critical situation for his career. He's got nowhere to jump to, unlike Vettel, and no laurels to rest on either. This Red Bull revival was meant to be 'his time', and now his reign is threatened before it began.

It should make for great viewing though. I don't think he's the type to back down from a challenge, so I hope the degree of competition is maintained for their partnership.

Good points raised there.

I also don't see Ricciardo backing down. But he has come out to the press with some negative views about the situation, which automatically backs him into a corner.
There is already precedent within this team of an Aussie ceding ground to a young Germanic prodigy. History seems geared to this lightning striking twice.
And this brings me back to my first point, in Ric not backing down.

2017 offers plenty of opportunity to Red Bull and the chasers to close the gap to Mercedes. If Red Bull do so, and if the championship situation calls for it, will Red Bull allow Ric to race Vers?
It's all very well at present being slower than the Mercs, but when it arises, I see some implications for Ricciardo.
Will they seek their new prodigious poster boy as the De facto unchallenged leader of the team?

[FoxHound]

Basically what we saw was driver coaching and race manipulation by mercedes. I don't wrong redbull from feeling cheated.

Yet Red Bull's message informing Vers of investigation, and thereby stopping any actual racing, was ok?
It appears you value the current radio messaging ban, and not actual racing.

[turbof1]

Clear breach of the rules for rosberg. It's so funny how the team was so reluctant to even remotely help lewis and then they spill the beans to Nico in a matter of miliseconds.
Anyhow, this is why Nico should be penalized:
1. His car's performance before the assistance was, as stated by horner, visibly slower. After the team radioed him, he followed instructions which instantly improved his cars performance; he got back on the pace right after.

2. The team should have told him "we detect a gearbox failure, shut off the engine", or "gearbox problem detected". That's how you notify a failure. What they did was to tell him exactly what was happening, and exactly how to get out of it.

3. Nico asked about gear changes, and was assisted by being told which gear, and also how to change gear.

All the assistance above helped Nico and prevented Max from naturally overtaking a troubled car. Basically what we saw was driver coaching and race manipulation by mercedes. I don't wrong redbull from feeling cheated.
They should be rewarded for putting together a more reliable car than merc and nico, and also being in the right place when it counts to collect their points.

Mercedes should be punished, and the punishment should result in them losing more points than would demote them to P-3. The result must be lower than P-3 because if the drop to P-3 we can't really call that a punishment.

The issue is that the rules basically state that you can only aid the driver if a "car stopping problem" is imminen"t. There is no rule about stopping the problem while also keeping the car in a compromised state similar to when the issue appeared. It's fully possible that continueing to run seventh gear would have destroyed the gearbox completely.

It's very difficult, which is reflected by the needed time of taking the decision. I'm fairly sure it'll require taking the telemetry next to it, and breaking open the gearbox to check that specific gear.

[Restomaniac]

So Merc feel it's ok to tell Rosberg how to change gear instead of retiring.
Yet in the last race they stated they couldn't tell that same driver that his brakes were critical and that he had a BBW failure?
Then we have the fact that they said couldn't tell Hamilton about his problems in Bacu.

BS of the highest order.