2016 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, 08-10 July

[GrizzleBoy]

Basically what we saw was driver coaching and race manipulation by mercedes. I don't wrong redbull from feeling cheated.

Yet Red Bull's message informing Vers of investigation, and thereby stopping any actual racing, was ok?
It appears you value the current radio messaging ban, and not actual racing.

If the rules are that coaching is illegal and punishable by minimum of 5s penalty, and its legal to notify your driver that the driver in front is under investigation for obviously being coached, then in their eyes there is no racing left to do.

If in their hearts RB knows that what just happened is a punishable offense, then they're technically not racing against that driver.

It happens all the time. When we know a driver ahead has a drive through coming up, the car behind (unless for strategy reasons) doesn't need to fight to get ahead.

So Merc feel it's ok to tell Rosberg how to change gear instead of retiring.
Yet in the last race they stated they couldn't tell that same driver that his brakes were critical and that he had a BBW failure?
Then we have the fact that they said couldn't tell Hamilton about his problems in Bacu.

BS of the highest order.

As I said in the last race thread, Merc management are so far past being trustworthy its unreal. Its impossible to believe a single word they say.

[GrandAxe]

It's 74-64 in favour of Max since he joined Red Bull. In the last four races its 49-34 in his favour. If he hadn't crashed in Monaco he might already be in front - but he did crash in Monaco.

It will be interesting to see how he goes against Ricciardo in Hungary, as Ricciardo is usually very quick there. I would expect Ric. to continue to edge the qualifying situation, but imo Max appears to have a small edge during the races, which would be magnified were he to qualify ahead. Qualifying behind, they appear to be more even than may actually be the case.

Over the course of the season it might depend on how many mistakes Max makes. Ricciardo doesn't make many, he is experienced, he is consistent - he's finished 4th five times in ten races. If Max improves in qualifying and doesn't make any unforced errors, I think he'll come out ahead.

In the main, it's also interesting how Ricciardo's own mentality has slipped from being the chirpy positive one, to being downright unhappy at the situation.

It is an interesting situation. I commented in the team thread about the Verstappen promotion being a lose-lose situation for Ricciardo, and it is proving to be the case so far. They're both top quality, it's just the nature of Verstappen's career trajectory is beginning to take the shine off of Ricciardo's.

Seeing the change in Ricciardo's mood is telling though. I think he knows this is a critical situation for his career. He's got nowhere to jump to, unlike Vettel, and no laurels to rest on either. This Red Bull revival was meant to be 'his time', and now his reign is threatened before it began.

It should make for great viewing though. I don't think he's the type to back down from a challenge, so I hope the degree of competition is maintained for their partnership.

The way Ricciardo has reacted to Red Bulls errors (Monaco in particular where he was almost in tears) does not show strength of character. The real bad luck champs of the season (like Vettel and Lewis) have had a terrible string of unlucky events, yet have been able to keep their heads up, keep the bit between their teeth and deliver. No sulking, no entitled tears, few (or no) uncontrolled words in interviews.

If Ricciardo continues down his current trajectory, he will be no match for a teammate who is bounding with teenage energy and raring to go. Max also has the great advantage that as a rookie, he pretty much has few standards to fall below, especially being so young; Ricciardo doesn't have that luxury.

[Jolle]

So Merc feel it's ok to tell Rosberg how to change gear instead of retiring.
Yet in the last race they stated they couldn't tell that same driver that his brakes were critical and that he had a BBW failure?
Then we have the fact that they said couldn't tell Hamilton about his problems in Bacu.

BS of the highest order.

Well, you've got BS and BS.

For the BBW in Austria, you don't, never criticise a team member in public, these day's not even Niki. Of course, when I driver goes long, his brakes etc etc, or his tires etc etc, tried to maximise the situation, electronic bladiebla.

For Hamilton in Baku, that was a performance issue. Not a part failing. He needed to operate the car...
For Rosberg, two things he got: how to reset the gearbox, else he would have DNF-ed (this should be allowed) and a second message how he should shift from 6 to 8. Which you don't need to finish the race with only a handful laps.

[GrizzleBoy]

TEN SEC PENALTY

18:19
BREAKING: Nico Rosberg handed a 10-second time penalty at the #BritishGP

The German driver drops to third after the penalty.

From SKY

[ChrisDanger]

Drops him to 3rd.

[i70q7m7ghw]

The biggest thing for me is not them telling him to upshift, they clearly told him "CHASSIS DEFAULT ZERO ONE CHASSIS DEFAULT ZERO ONE", that for me was 100% breach the the regs. I don't understand how that's not a DSQ. If the car infringed the technical regulations, it would be disqualified...

[dans79]

That's going to guarantee all the teams will do it in the future!

[FoxHound]

Basically what we saw was driver coaching and race manipulation by mercedes. I don't wrong redbull from feeling cheated.

Yet Red Bull's message informing Vers of investigation, and thereby stopping any actual racing, was ok?
It appears you value the current radio messaging ban, and not actual racing.

If the rules are that coaching is illegal and punishable by minimum of 5s penalty, and its legal to notify your driver that the driver in front is under investigation for obviously being coached, then in their eyes there is no racing left to do.

If in their hearts RB knows that what just happened is a punishable offense, then they're technically not racing against that driver.

It happens all the time. When we know a driver ahead has a drive through coming up, the car behind (unless for strategy reasons) doesn't need to fight to get ahead.

I disagree.

The rule was to stop excessive coaching. Not to stop a driver requesting assistance on failing cars with the complexity of a space shuttle. Think of the safety implications.
Verstappen clearly backed off as a result of Red Bull's radio message, which is a relation to "driver coaching" and "telling a driver how to drive".

Rosberg fixed his technical issue, but Vers sat back and took 3rd.

What are the racing implications of Red Bull's message? Clearly no racing at all.

[ringo]

Basically what we saw was driver coaching and race manipulation by mercedes. I don't wrong redbull from feeling cheated.

Yet Red Bull's message informing Vers of investigation, and thereby stopping any actual racing, was ok?
It appears you value the current radio messaging ban, and not actual racing.

I don't like the rule really, but they exist and they must be followed while they are in force. I would prefer banning helping drivers in braking points and which gear to use etc. as opposed to helping witch mechanical and electrical details.

Saying that, as they are now the rules clearly state that there shall be no assistance to the driver to operate the car. There is no evidence there is an imminent failure. The only help for an imminent failure must be to stop the engine. A gear box cannot be on the brink of failure and then a few button presses solves the problem.

Redbull's message to Ves, was in no way coaching. It's similar to saying that a driver crashed out, or a driver is coming into the pits. They left it up to Ves to decide how to drive his car to take advantage of the situation. Ves had to decide if he was going to close in on Rosberg or back off and save his car. So i don't see ves and Ros radio messages as similar.

Rosberg was not only given a problem, he was given a solution; in fact given solutions to two problems and even went as far as asking for clarification!

[smellybeard]

That's going to guarantee all the teams will do it in the future!

Exactly.
Merc have gained a third place from breaking the rules.
Who says crime doesn't pay.

[ChrisDanger]

Williams usually cleans up these things but only appears once is not even in the top three.

[foxmulder_ms]

So Merc feel it's ok to tell Rosberg how to change gear instead of retiring.
Yet in the last race they stated they couldn't tell that same driver that his brakes were critical and that he had a BBW failure?
Then we have the fact that they said couldn't tell Hamilton about his problems in Bacu.

BS of the highest order.

Perfectly put. They deserve a punishment. Why the hell they didn't tell any thing to Lewis if this type of message is legal? BS rule BS execution.

[Shooty81]

That's going to guarantee all the teams will do it in the future!

Exactly.
Merc have gained a third place from breaking the rules.
Who says crime doesn't pay.

In the interview Lauda said there is an exception to avoid "terminal failure".

Using an exception is not breaking the rules.

[ringo]

They should have been fined the same amount of money that those 18 points would have given him.

P3 is lucky, P4 should have been the rightful result. Ricardo would have caught him in those last 2 or 3 laps had he been trundling around solving the problem himself or just grinding to a halt. lol

[FoxHound]

Rosberg was not only given a problem, he was given a solution; in fact given solutions to two problems and even went as far as asking for clarification!

To a reliability problem mate. He asked how to correct and overide a sensor, the team replied by issuing a mode and bypassing 7th gear.

This sets a dangerous precedent, and really is complete BS. Why have a radio?
I'm backing Hamilton in the WDC financially, but this decision sucks as bad as the rule.