2016 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, 08-10 July

[TAG]

My beef like with most every rule the FIA implements is the inconsistency in the way it's applied. This is an unprecedented case and the punishment now sets a baseline. My problem though is the deluge of commentary from Baku about it being Lewis' problem and maybe he should spend more time in the simulator. When it was an oversight by Mercedes programming the wrong STRAT mode when the driver was clearly saying everything is set correctly yet it's still not working.

Not only did Nico deserve the penalty but the general hypocrisy is that I've not once heard yet someone say that Nico needs to brush up more on his settings. It would seem that setting the various settings back to their default would be the first thing a driver would try given the sensor failure he and Mercedes both saw but Mercedes was there with the answer immediately upon request. I could understand if Nico reached out to the engineer and said, I did X,Y,Z and set to these defaults and I'm still having an issue and then response from engineering, but the way it unfolded was amateur grade.

I don't care about the rule as dumb as I think it is, since the only thing that it's seemingly caused is less radio chatter to transmit to the fans and endanger some drivers. But some continuity in the ways rules are enforced would be nice to have.

[stuartpengs]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that to be correct. They have 5s, 10s, 20s and can even quantify a drive through or stop 'n go and convert it into a time penalty. Next to the DSQ of course.

No I don't think that's correct. It's a 5 or 10 second time penalty applied either during a race (when a car has a scheduled pitstop) or after the race if no more pit-stops; a drive-through (during the race) or disqualification. That's it as far as I'm aware for race penalties.

There aren't 'stop-go' penalties anymore.

[turbof1]

But the instruction prevented a DNF, so how is that not a massive advantage?

The argumentation is that this particular instruction was not crucial to prevent the DNF. Rosberg would have avoided 7th gear at any rate as legally instructed. The advantage he gained however was the knowledge he could still shift quickly through it to 8th gear.

[turbof1]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that to be correct. They have 5s, 10s, 20s and can even quantify a drive through or stop 'n go and convert it into a time penalty. Next to the DSQ of course.

No I don't think that's correct. It's a 5 or 10 second time penalty applied either during a race (when a car has a scheduled pitstop) or after the race if no more pit-stops; a drive-through (during the race) or disqualification. That's it as far as I'm aware for race penalties.

There aren't 'stop-go' penalties anymore.

I'll go through the sporting rules to check.

[i70q7m7ghw]

But the instruction prevented a DNF, so how is that not a massive advantage?

The argumentation is that this particular instruction was not crucial to prevent the DNF. Rosberg would have avoided 7th gear at any rate as legally instructed. The advantage he gained however was the knowledge he could still shift quickly through it to 8th gear.

I disagree, if he hadn't asked he may have continued to drive through 7th incorrectly and had a DNF. It's all based on the assumption he would have trundled around only using up to 6th gear.

[jurinius]

Interesting that Hamilton got the silent treatment when he had problems with the car in Baku.

To be fair, Hammy is no dope and he doesn't need the hand holding that his team mate seems to need to have a stab at the championship.

I want and I continue to believe that after Baku incident with Lewis car, Merc management decided to broke radio banned regulations. The truth is it s sound good to avoid a DNF but as the team they should be careful because the others are watching and learning. For me maybe Nico deserves his 10s penalty, but Merc should receive a warning for that (rules are rules). This is another problem when you dont want to choose one driver as WDC, because not helping Nico sounds here like helping Hamilton so team Mercedes is in trouble

[stuartpengs]

But the instruction prevented a DNF, so how is that not a massive advantage?

It didn't though Diesel. The violation (confirmation of the question to push through 7th) didn't prevent a DNF. There are on-board shots of him using 7th and 8th after the instruction, so there's undoubtedly telemetry that confirms the same.

[turbof1]

But the instruction prevented a DNF, so how is that not a massive advantage?

The argumentation is that this particular instruction was not crucial to prevent the DNF. Rosberg would have avoided 7th gear at any rate as legally instructed. The advantage he gained however was the knowledge he could still shift quickly through it to 8th gear.

I disagree, if he hadn't asked he may have continued to drive through 7th incorrectly and had a DNF. It's all based on the assumption he would have trundled around only using up to 6th gear.

He was specifically instructed to avoid 7th gear. I think any normal person would take that as "don't go to 7th gear, avoid it at all costs".

[PlatinumZealot]

You all are falling for Mercedes deception! You got tricked hook line and sinker

There was no gearbox problem or any threat of losing the 7th gear or the entire gearbox for that matter.

Christian Horner noticed in the onboard video that Rosberg continued to use the 7th gear as normal after he did the "reset." He didn't even try to skip 7th or lessen his engine revs... And guess what? He didn't need to! Why? Because he had no gearbox problem but he had the same Engine problem that Hamilton had in Baku! The team only used the gearbox problem as a veil to pass the engine reset codes to Rosberg!

Don't you people see that?!

[Restomaniac]

You do know that everything is a 'may' have happened when any choice is made right?
The rule is an ass in that it's stuck with the current rules of 5 seconds, 10 seconds or DQ as its only outcomes. The chance of a DQ over any radio message are slim to none. So everyone now knows (Today clarifies it) that a radio instruction will get you 10 seconds even if it gains you 20/30/40/50 seconds over a race.

Good work FIA.

I'm not picking on Rosberg as you clearly think. Sorry.

The rules need some work, I don't think there any question there. Though on the other hand I think we all agree the last thing we want to return to is drivers being told to lift-and-coast, or that they should do this, that or the other at a specific part of the track to be quicker, as their teammate is doing. The general direction of the radio restrictions is a positive, and for the most part have worked reasonably well. I personally think the punishment fits the crime today, we have no idea how much time Rosberg would have lost, though given the fact he continued to use 7th and 8th gear after the instruction would suggest none, certainly not enough for Max to pass, or he would have in a heartbeat given half a chance - so looking at it objectively the simple confirmation to push past 7th gear today has cost Rosberg valuable points in the Drivers' Championship. Disqualification would have been grossly unfair (and I'm no Rosberg fan), and would have created more problems than it solved going forward.

I at no point suggested a DQ, however you are coming down on the side of That if Rosberg wasn't given that specific instruction he would have tried it anyway. I'm of the opinion he would have thought 'I'll stick with 1-6 for 5 laps and crawl home'.

Would RIC have caught him? That's the question and working with a Rosberg top speed in 6th would have given that answer.

They could have given Rosberg a penalty in line with those calculations. But they couldn't because they are hamstrung by the rules if Brundle is right. If that's true they need to give themselves a wider range.
My worry is that teams are now thinking 'cool a maximum of 10 seconds it is'.

[stuartpengs]

You all are falling for Mercedes deception! You got tricked hook line and sinker

There was no gearbox problem or any threat of losing the 7th gear or the entire gearbox for that matter.

Christian Horner noticed in the onboard video that Rosberg continued to use the 7th gear as normal after he did the "reset." He didn't even try to skip 7th or lessen his engine revs... And guess what? He didn't need to! Why? Because he had no gearbox problem but he had the same Engine problem that Hamilton had in Baku! The team only used the gearbox problem as a veil to pass the engine reset codes to Rosberg!

Don't you people see that?!

I saw Rosberg stuck in 7th gear. I don't remember Hamilton suffering a similar fate in Baku.

[Just_a_fan]

I agree it would have been close between those 2. I think given the penalty the stewards felt he would still have finished in front, or it atleast was neither clear cut for them.

Thats the problem though as another has said 10 secs or DQ is all they had.
As much as it's twisted by gears (pun intended) the FIA's rules have backed the stewards into a corner on this.
No way is a radio message going to get you a DQ so from now on a radio message that gets you an advantage of 20/30 seconds will cost you 10 secs post race.

Good job FIA.

Aside - Rosberg finishing has actually caused him some pain. Unless he's at the 5 race limit, he'll eat a gearbox penalty next race that he wouldn't have eaten if he'd DNFed.

A gearbox penalty is less than a DNF though. Especially for the Mercedes which, generally, one would expect to nullify the gearbox penalty grid loss during the race.

[Moose]

You all are falling for Mercedes deception! You got tricked hook line and sinker

There was no gearbox problem or any threat of losing the 7th gear or the entire gearbox for that matter.

Christian Horner noticed in the onboard video that Rosberg continued to use the 7th gear as normal after he did the "reset." He didn't even try to skip 7th or lessen his engine revs... And guess what? He didn't need to! Why? Because he had no gearbox problem but he had the same Engine problem that Hamilton had in Baku! The team only used the gearbox problem as a veil to pass the engine reset codes to Rosberg!

Don't you people see that?!

I saw Rosberg stuck in 7th gear. I don't remember Hamilton suffering a similar fate in Baku.

The tin foil hats are well and truly on. Mercedes CLEARLY instructed drivers who got stuck in a weird engine mode to pretend to be stuck in a specific gear and have a race ending problem so that they could instruct them in how to reset the engine, rather than adding a simple control to the steering wheel to carry out the reset in a more simple way.

[Boost]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that to be correct. They have 5s, 10s, 20s and can even quantify a drive through or stop 'n go and convert it into a time penalty. Next to the DSQ of course.

No I don't think that's correct. It's a 5 or 10 second time penalty applied either during a race (when a car has a scheduled pitstop) or after the race if no more pit-stops; a drive-through (during the race) or disqualification. That's it as far as I'm aware for race penalties.

There aren't 'stop-go' penalties anymore.

There certainly are stop/go penalties. Jolyon Palmer received one for being released with an unsafe car from the pits.

[stuartpengs]

I at no point suggested a DQ, however you are coming down on the side of That if Rosberg wasn't given that specific instruction he would have tried it anyway. I'm of the opinion he would have thought 'I'll stick with 1-6 for 5 laps and crawl home'.

Would RIC have caught him? That's the question and working with a Rosberg top speed in 6th would have given that answer.

They could have given Rosberg a penalty in line with those calculations. But they couldn't because they are hamstrung by the rules if Brundle is right. If that's true they need to give themselves a wider range.
My worry is that teams are now thinking 'cool a maximum of 10 seconds it is'.

So you're suggesting they ignore what actually happened (Rosberg continued to use 7th and 8th, despite being instructed to get out of 7th PDQ), then calculate the cumulative time lost for a car stuck in 6th (which at no time was the case), and then apply that as a penalty even though that wasn't available to them....all based on you thinking he would have stayed in 6th gear.

Uh-huh, sounds rational.