2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

[Nathanael F1]

And how did Hamilton not get a penalty if Verstappen did? Hamilton did the exact same thing.

[Powy]

https://twitter.com/F1/status/792892463299956737

[cooken]

And how did Hamilton not get a penalty if Verstappen did? Hamilton did the exact same thing.

It was not exactly the same thing. For heaven's sake this is a technical forum, where we discuss the smallest detail and finer points of design in terms of tenths of a second. Despite this, many people here constantly gloss over on track incidents with no attempt at a technical view whatsoever. Compare and contrast the onboards, and factor in the stage of the race. There are small but very important differences. Not capable and insist on painting these things with a broad brush? Go post on Reddit.... Or don't and continue to frustrate everyone because free speech

What I saw:
Hamilton had a fully fuel loaded car going into T1 with unknown grip and a glazed brake, and nobody was close enough to attempt a pass. He then locked up big time and was going way too fast to be able to slow down and get back on track to make T2. This was evidenced by his turn in attempt where he seemed to get a bit of oversteer and had to correct, then ran out of room.

Verstappen was on well used tires with known performance and defending his position against Vettel who was very close behind. He had a minor lock up, went a bit wide but had sufficiently slowed down the car to be able to make it back on track and take T2. Instead he decided to cut the corner to keep ahead of Vettel, who would have otherwise sailed around him.

Please, feel free to disagree but at least provide justification.

[foxmulder_ms]

Karma for Ferrari. What they did with Raikkonen was disgusting. They just pitted him to assist Vettel. This team has #1 driver fetish. They are worshiping #1. SHAME!

By the way, the way Vettel acting is very irritating what a cry baby.

[GTO99]

As for Vettel he shouldn't be penalized for dangerous driving...but i feel the penalty is more for his dirty mouth...

You hit the nail on the head mate.
I don't know what's wrong with Vettel this year. He's driving like a rookie not a 4-time WC. Plus, he's shooting his mouth off for every little incident like a silly school boy that wants all the attention.

[WaikeCU]

Before reading this, I'm looking at the objective way. Not favoring anybody.

What was it? Lap 69, 70 of 71 laps? I mean come on guys, maybe you are trying to over analyse everything and play it along the rules that are written black on white. In that stage of the race I don't blame either of the drivers (cfr. Vettel and Ricciardo) for their actions. One who desperately wants to get by for 4th and one who desperately wants to gain 3rd and really doesn't want to end up 5th. This is racing. I think of what finally happened today, Gilles and Ayrton would have been rolling in their graves. This stage of the race, you lose position, you won't gain it back. That's a fact. Simply with these constraints it won't be possible. This is close wheel to wheel racing as it should be.

What Verstappen did was definitely not the right thing, bailing out of the battle like that isn't the way it should be. You cut the track like that by being under heavy pressure, giving the place back is mandatory. Then he weaved on the second straight after he cut the corner. Weaving across the track is also forbidden, I think the penalty is rather light, if it's only 5 seconds penalty. I think he also should have get 2 points on his license in this case.

From my point of view moving under braking is different when you are committed to your position. From Ricciardo's interview after the race, he told that he was first intended to go to the outside before moving back to the inside. So his initial plan was different, but he changed it in the process of attempting the overtake.

So, what that means... if, moving under braking is not allowed any more, I believe the car behind is dominant one of the two. The car in front will be even more of a sitting duck. If moving under braking is not allowed, then for me, DRS should be banned altogether. It should even out the playing field between the driver attempting the overtake and the driver defending the overtake. For me they shouldn't have changed the rules regarding moving under braking. It's different from situation to situation.

[Gaz.]

So Vettel defends hard against Ricciardo and is given a super harsh 10 second penalty. I hate the steward penalty decision system - it's like they just do whatever they feel like that day. We've seen so many incidents where Verstappen ran other drivers off the road and erratically moved under braking and didn't get penalized. Vettel didn't do either to nearly the same extent.

It is because Verstappen has made this type of move in the braking zones so many times that some drivers pushed for this unwritten rule to be cast in stone with guidelines for the stewards to follow, starting at the USA Grand Prix. Before the USA it was a guideline and open to interpretation and Max rightly or wrongly had the benefit of the doubt by various race stewards at multiple events.

At the USA drivers meeting several drivers tabled a motion for Charlie Whiting to impose a new rule, enforceable through telemetry, in which changing direction under braking is strictly not allowed.

So where before three stewards would umm and ahh and debate shades of grey, the drivers themselves have granted Charlie black and white rules backed up with their own telemetry

This is the Stewards' statement

The stewards paid particular attention to the Race Directors Notes from the US Grand Prix (v2) and from this event (point 18).

Notwithstanding the F1 Commission directive to "let the drivers race" we note the concern that has been expressed about manoeuvrers involving a change of direction under braking as expressed at the Drivers Briefing at the US Grand Prix and in the Race Director's Notes from the US Grand Prix and this event.

The telemetry and video evidence shows that the driver of Car 5 did change direction under braking.

Article 27.5 and the Race Director's Notes have essentially three criteria that determine a breach

1) Driving in a manner potentially dangerous
2) An abnormal change of direction
3) Another driver having to take evasive action

The video footage, including the close circuit footage, the broadcast vision, both drivers' on board cameras plus the telemetry show that there was an abnormal change of direction by Car 5 and this was considered to be potentially dangerous in view of the proximity of the wheels of each car.

The video evidence clearly shows that Car 3 had to take evasive action as a result. Accordingly as all three criteria have been met, the driver of Car 5 is guilty of a breach of Article 27.5


So it was slam dunk and Vettel was hoist with his own petard.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

The more I see Vettel's behavior, which obviously is driven by a car that is not a race winner and a team that is clueless more often than not, the more I feel the stature of Alonso grow, for what he did with Ferrari. This year Vettel has behaved and driven like a rookie.

Even on a track with longest straight, it is impossible to overtake when cars have as much as half a second pace difference. I can't imagine the scene next year with much faster cars. Circuits like Australia, Spain, Hungary would kill the viewers with Greatest boredom ever.

Those who support Vettel and Ferrari and who criticized Verstappen for his defensive manoeuvres now understand how stupid it is to close all avenues of aggressive racing. Driver in front is a sitting duck under DRS.

Why people cry when drivers go off track while driving aggressive. Someone said here, the car should come to complete stop before rejoining. I suggest, put a signal light and ask the driver to wait until it goes green. Also put a police guy next to that light to catch the driver breaking signal. Let's make this civic and end the nonsense of racing.

Trying to enforce too many rules is frustrating. First end the nonsense of having stewards and put a single group for the entire season.

Though Verstappen did not succeed in breaking Nico's race, I hope he would have forced Nico to definitely put loads of strain on his last set of PU elements. Hope it breaks next race. That would make the finale interesting.

[TheGkbrk]

How childish these drivers has become. Lewis, who we used to call a bit immature a couple of years ago, now looks so mature (under racing conditions at least). With the exception of Ricciardo though. He behaves like a world champion, hope to see him as one someday.

[Henk]

Hamilton had a fully fuel loaded car going into T1 with unknown grip and a glazed brake, and nobody was close enough to attempt a pass. He then locked up big time and was going way too fast to be able to slow down and get back on track to make T2. This was evidenced by his turn in attempt where he seemed to get a bit of oversteer and had to correct, then ran out of room.

When you brake 10 meters late, nobody can outbrake you. The first turn in a race is an overtaking opportunity. Gaining an advantage means not losing out when you should have. I would have accepted a 5 sec penalty but he really should have tried to get back on the track before turn 2.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Shockingly bad circuit. I'm sorry, praise the Mexican fans, and the stadium section all you like, but the circuit is among the worst on the calendar. There is zero room for overtaking, and the result is the farce we got at the end of the race, penalties handed out left right and center.

Wasn't the point with Verstappen's penalty was that he was told to give the place back? I don't know what to think on this one. Perhaps Hamilton shouldn't have been given 5 seconds originally. Personally, I felt Vettel's defence was hard but fair, he left a car width, a fact hard to dispute since both cars made it through the corner. It's fantastic though, because now a driver from behind can brake a little later, make it all look a little dramatic and then claim the guy in front "made me swerve" and give his opponent a time penalty.

[wesley123]

And how did Hamilton not get a penalty if Verstappen did? Hamilton did the exact same thing.

The VSC nullified any advantage he might have gained.

[f1316]

Well this is just a farce now.

Vettel wouldn't have come under attack from Ricciardo if Verstappen had given up the place - not in the way it happened,m. For him to be given double the penalty of the person causing the incident... the same person who week after week got away with whatever he wanted...the whole thing defies belief...

They know the net result when they give out these penalties. I don't think any penalty was merited but by giving a 10 second as opposed to a 5 for Verstappen is just unbelievable. Why even bother showing up for the rest of the season? Waste of time since you can completely game the system as happened this race.

[RA168E]

What i find bizarre in all of this with the moving under braking manouver is this, what if you make your move. commit to it. and you still squeeze them out under braking without turning the wheel prior to the normal turn in point? What happens then? Is it dangerous driving? Or is it still legal? I havent seen Sebs view of it since watching the race this afternoon, but thats something I always wonder with these knee jerk rules. I really wish we would have these old school track designs again for this reason. Because if that were to happen, wed have one of two things happen consistently. A) Drivers collide from neither of them wanting to yield and trying to stay ahead, which shows that they are all hungry and arent just putting along. B) It will be concise in figuring out who actually had the potential line to that corner without constant crying on the radio to Charlie and their Team Principals to get what they wont. Both of which im fine with. And on the topic of Lewis' lock up into T1, its the first lap, first corner. These things are expected to happen. No one cries out in outrage when this stuff happens at St. Devote or Montreal because there is guaranteed consequences because it doesnt have 250KM of run off area where you get no risk of punishment via penalty, or terminal damage to your car.

[Vasconia]

How childish these drivers has become. Lewis, who we used to call a bit immature a couple of years ago, now looks so mature (under racing conditions at least). With the exception of Ricciardo though. He behaves like a world champion, hope to see him as one someday.

Vettel and Alonso are extremely annoying when they talk to the radio.