2016 Grand Prix of Mexico - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 28-30 October

[basti313]

I think everyones issue is that he traversed the T1, T2, T3 complex faster than anyone else by bypassing the track and in doing so managed to completely negate the effect of his error in terms of time and track position.

For longest time I remember watching F1, the first corner of the first lap incidents have been an exception to the rule, as long as there is no contact. That is the most exciting part of the whole race. We have seen many incidents of overrunning in the first corner. As for overrunning in a corner, I have never seen any penalty when a car ahead breaches the braking zone and cuts a corner, except for a track limits warning. The rules have been applied when there are two cars side by side.

I do not agree with this. The problem he have with steward's decisions stems from not looking at the first corner. They were starting not to judge all the first corner running opponent off the track and this was pulled to the full race. It could all have been stopped with "Nico, you run off Lewis, give the place back" by Whiting. Now we are in a situation, where the inside car consistently runs off the outside car in a corner. Is this racing?
The same for the track limits. If the car moves to a defensive line or has an opponent alongside and goes off, the position needs to be given away. If the car goes off without the opponent behind on the racing line, I see no problem with going on if there is no time advantage.

Nevertheless I see the Ham first corner incident not as a penalty, just because the cars behind did also go off/break too late, so no advantage towards Ros or Ves.

[Andres125sx]

U can critisize me, but what i see in Verstappen is somewhat Ayrton Senna. Same no remorse and no backing down attitude, even when being wrong about it. Going for the gap, no matter what the cost is. Pushing to the last limit and maybe even further.

All drivers in the grid to that, but usually FIA put a limit. Not with Max tough

Max behaviour is not weird for a teenager, my main problem with Max is not Max, but RBR and FIA who look like they enjoy this behaviour, as none of them said a word with this sort of moves Max is doing from day 1.

To me that´s the problem, drivers always push to the limits, if you make him think he´s not going beyond limits, he´ll push a little bit further, and with the situations we´ve seen I´m afraid about what could happen if he goes a little bit further

Max is a really talented driver, WDC material, but someone have to tell him where the limits are. I have the feeling it must be a blatant action for FIA (or RBR) to punish Max, like this one in Mexico, while other drivers are punished for a half of what Max do

[Wynters]

And how did Hamilton not get a penalty if Verstappen did? Hamilton did the exact same thing.

The VSC nullified any advantage he might have gained.

He had slowed down sufficiently to let the pack rejoin him before the VSC was deployed. I believe he had only two car lengths on Rosberg and four on Verstappen at that point. I assume he'll have received a warning for corner cutting though.

I dont understand what is going on with Nico. One thing is to be cautious but he is going much slower than in the previous races. He is playing with fire because Vestappen put him under a gret pressure. His defense was great but really, cant he go faster?

I think he was fortunate that one of the two overtakes was at the first corner of the first lap. Normally, if the car on the inside pushes you wide on exit you either back off and slot in behind or you accept going off the track and struggling to rejoin. In this case, Rosberg instead chose to cut across the corner and floored it, gaining a two car-length lead on a car that had overtaken him. I think it was rightly ruled as a first-lap racing incident but it wasn't great defending. The only way Verstappen could've made his overtake stick against him was to join him on his off-road excursion and that's not right.

[Writinglife]

Max has more control and skill at his young age then Maldonado ever did, and more than Grosjean did at the start of his career. We all know drivers who were liabilities.

Heck, even Hamilton crashed into the back of Raikonnen in the pits in Canada 2008

[NathanOlder]

I think everyones issue is that he traversed the T1, T2, T3 complex faster than anyone else by bypassing the track and in doing so managed to completely negate the effect of his error in terms of time and track position.

For longest time I remember watching F1, the first corner of the first lap incidents have been an exception to the rule, as long as there is no contact. That is the most exciting part of the whole race. We have seen many incidents of overrunning in the first corner. As for overrunning in a corner, I have never seen any penalty when a car ahead breaches the braking zone and cuts a corner, except for a track limits warning. The rules have been applied when there are two cars side by side.

yep, and to see people comparing VES incident with HAM's start shows what a truley warped perception some people have.

+1. No idea what people are thinking at times!

[TwanV]

For longest time I remember watching F1, the first corner of the first lap incidents have been an exception to the rule, as long as there is no contact. That is the most exciting part of the whole race. We have seen many incidents of overrunning in the first corner. As for overrunning in a corner, I have never seen any penalty when a car ahead breaches the braking zone and cuts a corner, except for a track limits warning. The rules have been applied when there are two cars side by side.

yep, and to see people comparing VES incident with HAM's start shows what a truley warped perception some people have.

+1. No idea what people are thinking at times!

I agree nevertheless, in the heat of the moment I can understand VES/RB interpretation of HAM leaving the track as being somewhat similar, and the podium worth the risk of finding out after a steward's decision. I think it's sad what happened afterwards, but I'm happy justice has been done with VES and VET losing their place. Not that I think his move was that bad, but now that it is set in stone that moving under braking is illegal, this is what you can expect. And I don't think his rant will have helped.

[Andres125sx]

How many drivers have Vettel insulted lately? It´s amazing how frustrated he is, he even insulted Charlie Whiting!! Vettel is stablishing a new record whining wise

About the penalized incident, I initially thought he doesn´t deserve a penalty, but looking at the replays he did exactly what FIA clarified not to do, change direction under braking. Basically Vettel got penalized because of previous Max moves, without Max in the grid that clarification would have never existed and Vettel move would have not been penalized. But the clarification happened and he didn´t respect it, probably because of his frustration.

[Andres125sx]

About Hamilton incident in lap 1, we all know stewards don´t look at turn 1 incidents too much. Also, at the spanish tv they said Lewis had a 100ºC temperature difference between his right and left front brakes. I can´t understand how that may happen without a problem, but that may explain the incident, and maybe the lack of punishment too

Rosberg did a great job cruising to second place

And Ricciardo move switching tires on lap 1 was risky, but worked great


Talking about frustration, how frustrating it must have been for Perez to be stuck behind Massa the whole home race

[djos]

Please stay calm, guys...

https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status ... 6943674368

Brilliant, Vettel deserved to get penalised for the foul mouth episode but I guess the stewards needed an excuse to throw the book at him.

[djos]

The more I see Vettel's behavior, which obviously is driven by a car that is not a race winner and a team that is clueless more often than not, the more I feel the stature of Alonso grow, for what he did with Ferrari. This year Vettel has behaved and driven like a rookie.

Even on a track with longest straight, it is impossible to overtake when cars have as much as half a second pace difference. I can't imagine the scene next year with much faster cars. Circuits like Australia, Spain, Hungary would kill the viewers with Greatest boredom ever.

Those who support Vettel and Ferrari and who criticized Verstappen for his defensive manoeuvres now understand how stupid it is to close all avenues of aggressive racing. Driver in front is a sitting duck under DRS.

Why people cry when drivers go off track while driving aggressive. Someone said here, the car should come to complete stop before rejoining. I suggest, put a signal light and ask the driver to wait until it goes green. Also put a police guy next to that light to catch the driver breaking signal. Let's make this civic and end the nonsense of racing.

Trying to enforce too many rules is frustrating. First end the nonsense of having stewards and put a single group for the entire season.

Though Verstappen did not succeed in breaking Nico's race, I hope he would have forced Nico to definitely put loads of strain on his last set of PU elements. Hope it breaks next race. That would make the finale interesting.

Nailed it mate!

[FW17]

There was a car that impeded NR while lapping which led to MV dive bombing NR at turn 4. That car could have backed off on the main straight but chose not to defended into the turn 1 complex and did not make it easy on the runup to turn 4.

Who was this? why wasn't he penalized? Was it Sainz?

[JonoNic]

If Hamilton received a warning for corner cutting then he would be penalised next race. Isn't he on a last warning?

[RedNEO]

Though Verstappen did not succeed in breaking Nico's race, I hope he would have forced Nico to definitely put loads of strain on his last set of PU elements. Hope it breaks next race. That would make the finale interesting.

The irony of Hamilton fans praying for reliability problems. It's only sabotage if it happens to Hamilton . I'm going to counter it strongly and hope Rosberg gets a win at the next race

[Wynters]

The irony of Hamilton fans praying for reliability problems. It's only sabotage if it happens to Hamilton . I'm going to counter it strongly and hope Rosberg gets a win at the next race

I don't think it's just Hamilton fans. Rosberg has been metronomic this season when it comes to accumulating points so, if he wins the WDC, it's a deserved victory. But it's not particularly exciting watching the WDC-elect spend five/six races driving around with his feet up on the monocoque, cocktail in one hand and lazily waving to the crowd with the other.

It's not Rosberg's fault, he's doing the logical thing of driving sensibly and taking no risks ... but it's not as exciting as if it was going to go down to the wire. I'd much rather Rosberg suffered a DNF (or equivalent points gap closing scenario) so that the gap was 6 points or less at the last race. Even if he crushed Hamilton in every session of the last weekend, at least the weekend would matter. Right now, the only competition left is Force India vs Williams and Force India is faster and ahead so 'competition' is perhaps too strong a word.

[f1316]

The more I see Vettel's behavior, which obviously is driven by a car that is not a race winner and a team that is clueless more often than not, the more I feel the stature of Alonso grow, for what he did with Ferrari. This year Vettel has behaved and driven like a rookie.

Even on a track with longest straight, it is impossible to overtake when cars have as much as half a second pace difference. I can't imagine the scene next year with much faster cars. Circuits like Australia, Spain, Hungary would kill the viewers with Greatest boredom ever.

Those who support Vettel and Ferrari and who criticized Verstappen for his defensive manoeuvres now understand how stupid it is to close all avenues of aggressive racing. Driver in front is a sitting duck under DRS.

Why people cry when drivers go off track while driving aggressive. Someone said here, the car should come to complete stop before rejoining. I suggest, put a signal light and ask the driver to wait until it goes green. Also put a police guy next to that light to catch the driver breaking signal. Let's make this civic and end the nonsense of racing.

Trying to enforce too many rules is frustrating. First end the nonsense of having stewards and put a single group for the entire season.

Though Verstappen did not succeed in breaking Nico's race, I hope he would have forced Nico to definitely put loads of strain on his last set of PU elements. Hope it breaks next race. That would make the finale interesting.

Nailed it mate!

Not really.

The frustration comes from without, not within the team (at least in this case; inability to make tyres work properly in qualifying when the car is fast is also very frustrating though).

The Ricciardo move was, perhaps, slightly over the line of what I think was acceptable. But it was brought about by another driver who continues to play by his own rules and is always let off the hook in one way or another. In this instance it worked out pretty damn well for Verstappen - and brilliantly for Red Bull - so again no reason for him ever to behave any differently.

The main part of the frustration is because of an accumulation of events where one particular driver does whatever he wants. Jumped up little what-have-you is probably not far off Vettel's mindset.

Edit: and the fact Charlie's wrapping him in cotton wool - much more benefit of the doubt than anyone else seems to get - is why he also bears the brunt.