2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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ripper
ripper
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:24 pm
dans79, thanks for that analysis, I did a similar one for another forum (different reasons though) and I didn't have the data for first lap differences (I assumed 0.7s from one car to another), though I see that it was bigger from Ham to Rai and Ver. This is my graph:

http://i63.tinypic.com/2uj0zy9.jpg

I believe Hamilton felt the pressure and thought that his tyres were gone before they actually were. Look at the lap time drop Max had before he pitted. Also, I think both Kimi and Vettel could have gone for a few more laps, Vettel would have had even bigger advantage by then. The only thing I don't understand is why those two haven't chosen super softs instead of softs, like Max.
My guess is that Ferrari pit wall knew that overtaking a Mercedes here was impossible even with SS instead of S tyre, so they went for the most safe strategy in order to avoid the remote eventuality of an unannounced cliff.

I would have risked SS on Raikkonen anyway, in order to put pressure on Bottas

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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giantfan10 wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:40 pm
FrukostScones wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:22 pm
giantfan10 wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:45 pm


My opinion is that its a difference in driving style and slight car handling differences.
Vettel is consistently later on the brakes and as a result later on the throttle at or before the apex.
Hamilton is earlier on the brakes and earlier on the throttle.
That accounts for hamilton being faster on corner exit "slow in fast out"
its interesting to see the laps side by side and the obvious mistakes vettel made.
Does a full load of fuel at race start magnify the slight oversteer that vettel has or does it cure it?
does car length have anything to do with vettels oversteer and Hamiltons slight understeer?
is it down to hamilton having a better setup?
Hamilton had a more balanced car which in turn makes it look as if he wasnt pushing...trust me he was, he just didnt make any mistakes and vettel made a few which accounts for a quarter of a second.
sounds like Sirotkin observations
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/test ... in-883483/
lol no i didnt plagiarize Sirotkin
LOL, I meant it sounds coherent with Sirotkins observations : )
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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iotar__
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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- How did Magnussen not get a penalty? That wasn't even attempt gone wrong. I can guarantee there will be penalties for less.

- For pure racing fans, L. Hamilton: "There's no way I can get past this guy", all the pushing 100% and not worrying about tyres didn't help? At last no 100% fake overtakes and only purer ones, Hamilton wasn't capable of one, now let's get rid of DRS =P~ .

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:36 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:34 pm


I'm also a bit surprised because frankly, Mercedes and Hamilton scored own goals today. It's amazing what a little bit of pressure can do to you. If Ferrari can keep this up, Mercedes will earn those titles a lot more than they have in the past. But, they should have both won the race today. I saw Hamilton make an error behind Verstappen as well in his chase, so it's not just Mercedes that cocked up. It's a bit laughable when people suggest Ferrari are much faster in race trim. It's just been one race and from data it's evident that they were pretty much neck and neck. Mercedes in my opinion, just aren't used to this sort of pressure, real pressure!

Also, these complains on overtaking? I personally loved the race! F1 has never been about passing. We saw one from Ocon, and that was quite outstanding. Because passes are few that's why when they happen, you are left in awe. Yes, following can be made easier and RB is at it to make things better. We've just changed the regs and we just need to let all this settle before making any knee jerk reactions.

I somehow knew your post wouldn't be complete without saying that Merc was the faster car :P

komninosm
komninosm
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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One of the most boring races ever.

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JonoNic
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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komninosm wrote:One of the most boring races ever.
Not true.
Always find the gap then use it.

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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I honestly believe the Mercedes is at the least as quick as the Ferrari. Both QF and race pace. But performance, like it or not, is not used as a sprint, but endurance. Making tires more durable only adds to the importance of fuel efficiency.

I also think the issues were a bit exaggerated due to the lack of experience on these tires. Think about it; these are vastly different tires than in the years before. There is only so much you can test during FP. And the pre season tests were on an entirely different track, different aero, surface etc.

The team/driver running at the front is always at a slight disadvantage. How much risk do you take? Take a gamble when you are already leading and have track position? Unlikely. As the leading car, you usually go with the odds. Look at it from Sebs perspective; they could hold on to Hamilton. They could take risks too, take a gamble. Force your competitor into a mistake. I think Hamilton/Mercedes through the lack of knowledge, experience and confidence pressured themselves into pitting first. Not unlike many races last year or the year before when Ferrari found themselves in the lead and then threw the race away by making a strategic mistake.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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The_table
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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MAN i was looking forward to this :D

Awesome to see Vettel winning in a Ferrari and no Honda engines exploding today.

I wonder what went wrong with Mercedes , Hamilton was complaining all day about his tyres yet we did not hear a word from Bottas.

Alonso was basically in the point(s) all race which is also very positive news.

henra
henra
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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komninosm wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:51 pm
One of the most boring races ever.
Under which Rock did you sleep the last 3 Years? :?: :mrgreen:

komninosm
komninosm
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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boozie wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:47 am
Shrieker wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:12 am
Had Hamilton stayed 3-4 laps more they risked being undercut by Vettel, after it was certain that Vettel would come out ahead of Verstappen. So they were between the rock and a hard place.
Well, sort of.
In hindsight in my opionen the only "correct" strategy would have been to pit HAM as soon as he would clear VER after the stop. Because VET was about 1sec behind the undercut wouldn't have worked beforehand. And HAMs pace in clear air on fresh softs was acutally quicker than VET on used ultras so without VER the overcut wouldn't have worked either.
VET seemed quicker on softs but in no way quick enough to overtake HAM, track position seems to be even more important this season.
EXACTLY!

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:34 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:36 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:34 pm


I'm also a bit surprised because frankly, Mercedes and Hamilton scored own goals today. It's amazing what a little bit of pressure can do to you. If Ferrari can keep this up, Mercedes will earn those titles a lot more than they have in the past. But, they should have both won the race today. I saw Hamilton make an error behind Verstappen as well in his chase, so it's not just Mercedes that cocked up. It's a bit laughable when people suggest Ferrari are much faster in race trim. It's just been one race and from data it's evident that they were pretty much neck and neck. Mercedes in my opinion, just aren't used to this sort of pressure, real pressure!

Also, these complains on overtaking? I personally loved the race! F1 has never been about passing. We saw one from Ocon, and that was quite outstanding. Because passes are few that's why when they happen, you are left in awe. Yes, following can be made easier and RB is at it to make things better. We've just changed the regs and we just need to let all this settle before making any knee jerk reactions.

I somehow knew your post wouldn't be complete without saying that Merc was the faster car :P
In race trim, as fast as Ferrari, but they had track position which under these regs is gold. I think in quali they still have a bit in hand.

Blimey I just saw Palmer's interview from the weekend. What's wrong with him?
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

komninosm
komninosm
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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henra wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:17 pm
komninosm wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:51 pm
One of the most boring races ever.
Under which Rock did you sleep the last 3 Years? :?: :mrgreen:
There were a lot of other boring races and I did say "one of".
At least in previous years we saw more fighting, if not for first place then for seconds, or tertiary places.
This race was utter boredom after Verstappen (not his fault) ruined Ham's race.
Almost nothing happened. At all.
Also being unable to pass a weaker car right after you pit with fresh tires does not bode well for the future.
So what got you triggered that you had to make that pointless reply?

basti313
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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komninosm wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:22 pm
boozie wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:47 am
Shrieker wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:12 am
Had Hamilton stayed 3-4 laps more they risked being undercut by Vettel, after it was certain that Vettel would come out ahead of Verstappen. So they were between the rock and a hard place.
Well, sort of.
In hindsight in my opionen the only "correct" strategy would have been to pit HAM as soon as he would clear VER after the stop. Because VET was about 1sec behind the undercut wouldn't have worked beforehand. And HAMs pace in clear air on fresh softs was acutally quicker than VET on used ultras so without VER the overcut wouldn't have worked either.
VET seemed quicker on softs but in no way quick enough to overtake HAM, track position seems to be even more important this season.
EXACTLY!
Well, the Merc pitwall clearly estimated an early stop by Ves like usual. It seems like the Bull was even worse on Softs, so bad that RedBull did not attempt to put Rai under pressure. Instead they were finishing the tires and only helping Vet with the need to go for SS.
So for me this looks like a classic call to avoid the undercut together with a complaining driver and the lack of speed to pull a gap.

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Mr.G
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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komninosm wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:22 pm
boozie wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:47 am
Shrieker wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:12 am
Had Hamilton stayed 3-4 laps more they risked being undercut by Vettel, after it was certain that Vettel would come out ahead of Verstappen. So they were between the rock and a hard place.
Well, sort of.
In hindsight in my opionen the only "correct" strategy would have been to pit HAM as soon as he would clear VER after the stop. Because VET was about 1sec behind the undercut wouldn't have worked beforehand. And HAMs pace in clear air on fresh softs was acutally quicker than VET on used ultras so without VER the overcut wouldn't have worked either.
VET seemed quicker on softs but in no way quick enough to overtake HAM, track position seems to be even more important this season.
EXACTLY!
Vettel was managing his tyres exactly for this, he backed off to have clear air but when he needed he always was able to catch Hamilton. So if Hamilton would stay longer so would Vettel... What would happen then??? They can pit together or one of them get one lap sooner... Also one of them could go for SS tyres... How would it end? Well I don't have crystal ball...
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

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Jordan44
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Re: 2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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iotar__ wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:30 pm
- How did Magnussen not get a penalty? That wasn't even attempt gone wrong. I can guarantee there will be penalties for less.

- For pure racing fans, L. Hamilton: "There's no way I can get past this guy", all the pushing 100% and not worrying about tyres didn't help? At last no 100% fake overtakes and only purer ones, Hamilton wasn't capable of one, now let's get rid of DRS =P~ .
No idea what you're talking about. They are still worrying about tyres more than ever and they're still being cooked following cars. Jock Clear said as much.

DRS is due to be adjusted to suit these new cars by the way.