Oil as fuel

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hardingfv32
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Oil as fuel

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The FIA seems to be taking a serious approach towards the consumption of oil. There seems to be a claim that it can be as a benefit during Qualifying.

ASSUMING this is true: How could the oil consumption of the current engines (and rules) be modified between qualifying and the start of the race?

Brian

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nevill3
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Re: Oil as fuel

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The current regulations allow different oil specifications to be used between qualifying and race, the rumour is that some teams are running a less robust specification that gives a performance boost during qualifying and then replace it with a more durable specification for the race. The proposal is to insist on only one specification per event per engine.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Oil as fuel

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Would it be a thicker oil for qualifying?
Hotter engine... more protection?

Or a thinner oil?

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henry
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Re: Oil as fuel

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:50 pm
Would it be a thicker oil for qualifying?
Hotter engine... more protection?

Or a thinner oil?
I think the suggestion is that the oil used for qualifying substitutes ingredients that lubricate with ingredients that burn as fuel or act as catalysts to improve the burning of the fuel itself.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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Phil
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Re: Oil as fuel

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As far as i understand, didnt the FIA already start to monitor the amount of oil being used? If yes, that could perhaps explain why Mercedes (if they are in fact using this) can only use it more effectively during qualifying and not during the race?
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dren
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Re: Oil as fuel

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I was under the assumption that Mercedes had access to the Q3 mode during the race, so perhaps this isn't the 'special sauce' that Mercedes uses to turn up their PU in Q3.
Honda!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Oil as fuel

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henry wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:56 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:50 pm
Would it be a thicker oil for qualifying?
Hotter engine... more protection?

Or a thinner oil?
I think the suggestion is that the oil used for qualifying substitutes ingredients that lubricate with ingredients that burn as fuel or act as catalysts to improve the burning of the fuel itself.
Yes but apart from using the oil to cheat the fuel regs... I was wondering if you had to use an oil grade only for qualifying what viscosity would be prefered.

BrunoH
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Re: Oil as fuel

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i bet its a thinner oil, to give some extra performance on qualy, its only a few laps so even if wear is higher its not goint to be anything critical...

simplefan
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Re: Oil as fuel

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I've heard a lot about burning oil for boosted performance lately but wasn't the same being done during the last V8 era? I seem to remember lubricant suppliers boasting of hp gains on the frozen spec engines.

J.A.W.
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Re: Oil as fuel

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:50 pm
Would it be a thicker oil for qualifying?
Hotter engine... more protection?

Or a thinner oil?
AFAIR, back in a less tightly regulated NASCAR era, specific ultra-low friction Q-engines were used,
inc' tribological advantages via 'watery' viscosity/high lubricity short-life oil..

Today, although oddly oil is - one area in F1 which is not so rules constrained, engine life is,
& oil formulation types affecting engine power vs durability must be a calculated risk..
Dr Moreau sez..
"Who breaks the law... goes back to the House of Pain!"

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FW17
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Re: Oil as fuel

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Rule changes planned for next year include a new regulation that teams must supply the measurement of the oil level of its main tank to the FIA at all times of the event, that active control valves between the power unit and engine air intake be banned
-- FIA Technical Directive

gruntguru
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Re: Oil as fuel

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I am amazed that such valves would not be currently prohibited.
je suis charlie

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Oil as fuel

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[quote=FW17]
[quote]Rule changes planned for next year include a new regulation that teams must supply the measurement of the oil level of its main tank to the FIA at all times of the event, [b]that active control valves between the power unit and engine air intake be banned[/b] [/quote]
-- FIA Technical Directive
[/quote]

I thank you ....
(yes, I do feel vindicated)

a victory against standard-issue technical/scientific fraud as widely encouraged and/or mandated by law in our 21 st century

basti313
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Re: Oil as fuel

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hardingfv32 wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:32 pm
The FIA seems to be taking a serious approach towards the consumption of oil. There seems to be a claim that it can be as a benefit during Qualifying.

ASSUMING this is true: How could the oil consumption of the current engines (and rules) be modified between qualifying and the start of the race?

Brian
Well, these are no claims or assumptions. It is quite clear that teams are burning oil for performance, that is why they even changed the rules to avoid this next year.
Also the rule change makes quite clear how they do it: They simply feed oil mist through the crankcase breather into the intake. With a simple valve and a bypass line round the oil separator you can easily control the amount. With nice oil additives you can have a very well burning oil mist...

With a capillary you could even feed liquid oil, but I am not sure if this would be the best idea.
nevill3 wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:42 pm
The current regulations allow different oil specifications to be used between qualifying and race, the rumour is that some teams are running a less robust specification that gives a performance boost during qualifying and then replace it with a more durable specification for the race. The proposal is to insist on only one specification per event per engine.
The discussions about Hamilton's engine blow up last year were quite clear, that they use only one oil spec. And they changed it round the event to a thinner one and went back to thick oil afterwards. They are quite close on the limit with the oil, I do not see room for playing games with Q-oil.

hardingfv32
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Re: Oil as fuel

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We still do not know how these only vent/vapor system provide their benefit after the oil mist is in the intake system.

If there was some kind of chemical not common to motor oil beginning used the FIA could have banned it and similar substances form the oil's composition.

Would anything in the intake tract require more lubrication during a qualifying engine mode setting?

Brian