2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Vasconia » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:49 am

Juzh wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:23 pm
Funny hearing about all those hamilton tracks when he's had the best car for the last 3 and half years.
His dominance in some tracks should analized taking into account that he has had the most dominant car in many years, I agree with this point, but Hungary is not the case. He has won here in 2007, 2009, 2012 and 2013. Its clear that Hamilton is pretty good here.

Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Vasconia » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:55 am

Pole:

1.Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Bottas
4. Verstappen
5. Bottas
6. Ricciardo
7. Sainz
8. Alson
9. Perez
10. Hulkenberg

Race:

1. Vettel
2. Hamilton
3. Vestappen
4. Bottas
5. Ricciardo
6. Saiz
7. Raikkonen
8. Alonso
9. Hulkenberg
10. Perez.

henry
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by henry » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:09 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:38 am
henry wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:42 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:07 am

The Mercedes hasn't any upgrades since Baku confirmed by the drivers. Any differences in speed is down to set up and mapping.
And that isn't development?
Why split hairs? Yes it is but he meant part upgrades.

Each track has its own map and setup even if the parts are the same. Sometimes the engine itself is undeveloped and the mapping is for general power increase for all tracks.. See renault engine. This is development without an upgrade. But most of the time.. If the engine spec is developed, the mapping at each track is done to make the engine drieveable to the characteristics of that track and of course to maximise the ERS. In other words for the same engine Spec the monza map would not be the same as the Monaco Map. It not a develepment if the maps are already scripted so to speak. Just a different mode.
In colloquial f1-tech terms... Development is 90% of the time taken to mean new parts. But if you want to split hairs.... Yes.. Creating the various engine maps does count as development.

In the case of Ferrari and Mercedes at Silverstone.. I can assume that Ferrari had an optimized engine map for that track.. And behavoral trait of the chassis and their setup was probably the difference in the race. Hamilton and Bottas said there is no upgrade on the car so i believe them.
I split hairs because I hope it will help in understanding the sport.

"Development" is the intellectual process of understanding how to improve the car to get to the end of the race in the shortest time. Sometimes that process ends up in physical parts, some of which we can see and some we can't, sometimes it ends up in software, on and off the car, and sometimes it results in procedures used by drivers, engineers, mechanics etc.

Toto Wolf recently reported that a team of people spent 10 days on the simulator understanding the reasons they couldn't set up the car as they wanted. From that they developed some things that helped them in the next races. We don't know if these were procedures, or tyre or engine maps, or analysis techniques, or anything else. We do know that they have performed consistently better even though there are no visible changes.

And splitting hairs again. I don't think the cars are set up optimally for race tracks. That would suggest that there is no room for improvement and given the complexity of the cars that seems unlikely. The development process will include improving the tools they use to get closer to the optimal.

If we don't split hairs like this, and this is a technical forum, we will end up with the X is quicker, I can't see a change, they must be cheating,conclusions.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

sosic2121
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by sosic2121 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:30 am

Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:49 am
Juzh wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:23 pm
Funny hearing about all those hamilton tracks when he's had the best car for the last 3 and half years.
His dominance in some tracks should analized taking into account that he has had the most dominant car in many years, I agree with this point, but Hungary is not the case. He has won here in 2007, 2009, 2012 and 2013. Its clear that Hamilton is pretty good here.
I don't want to contradict, but want to point out that he won pole position in 2012 and 2013, and was "given" one in 2007.
Also he had a pole in 2008.

Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Vasconia » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:57 am

sosic2121 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:30 am
Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:49 am
Juzh wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:23 pm
Funny hearing about all those hamilton tracks when he's had the best car for the last 3 and half years.
His dominance in some tracks should analized taking into account that he has had the most dominant car in many years, I agree with this point, but Hungary is not the case. He has won here in 2007, 2009, 2012 and 2013. Its clear that Hamilton is pretty good here.
I don't want to contradict, but want to point out that he won pole position in 2012 and 2013, and was "given" one in 2007.
Also he had a pole in 2008.
Good point. I had forgotten the "Hungariangate". :mrgreen:

SiLo
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by SiLo » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:15 am

I predict a HAM pole and win. He's really driving well at the moment, Merc seem to understand their car a lot more across the last few races and he always goes well here.

I think Ferrari may split the Mercs with Vettel, but he won't be able to touch Hamilton in the race unless something strange happens.

Hoping Verstappen can get in and spoil the party for someone as well, he's been driving well recently.
Felipe Baby!

George-Jung
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by George-Jung » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:56 am

Quali.

1 • Hamilton 1.16,544
2 • Vettel +0.084
3 • Bottas +0.132
4 • Verstappen +0.199
5 • Raikkonen +0.321
6 • Ricciardo +0.334
7 • Hulkenberg +0.927
8 • Ocon +1.032
9 • Perez +1.109
10 • Alonso +1.349


Race

1 • Vettel
2 • Verstappen
3 • Bottas
4 • Raikkonen
5 • Ricciardo
6 • Alonso
7 • Hulkenberg
8 • Ocon
9 • Perez
10 • Hamilton (late rear left delaminating tyre on the main straight and all hell breaks loose)

Moose
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Moose » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:43 pm

Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:55 am
Pole:

1.Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Bottas
4. Verstappen
5. Bottas
6. Ricciardo
7. Sainz
8. Alson
9. Perez
10. Hulkenberg
But... where will quantum Bottas finish in the race?

Will Mercedes get two sets of points for him?

ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by ChrisDanger » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:05 pm

Moose wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:43 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:55 am
Pole:

1.Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Bottas
4. Verstappen
5. Bottas
6. Ricciardo
7. Sainz
8. Alson
9. Perez
10. Hulkenberg
But... where will quantum Bottas finish in the race?

Will Mercedes get two sets of points for him?
There's also the wildcard entry of Hungarian Tamás Alson, subbing for Wehrlein, who magically puts the Sauber in 8th.

Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Vasconia » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:24 pm

Moose wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:43 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:55 am
Pole:

1.Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Bottas
4. Verstappen
5. Raikkonen
6. Ricciardo
7. Sainz
8. Alonso
9. Perez
10. Hulkenberg
But... where will quantum Bottas finish in the race?

Will Mercedes get two sets of points for him?
Mercedes is a mighty team, they can even clonate Bottas just to collect more points. :mrgreen:

TAG
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by TAG » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:26 pm

Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:49 am
Juzh wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:23 pm
Funny hearing about all those hamilton tracks when he's had the best car for the last 3 and half years.
His dominance in some tracks should analized taking into account that he has had the most dominant car in many years, I agree with this point, but Hungary is not the case. He has won here in 2007, 2009, 2012 and 2013. Its clear that Hamilton is pretty good here.
That clarity can be a little foggy to some because of the h8r goggles. And to think that Schumacher's pole record could be tied next race. :mrgreen:
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Vasconia » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:29 pm

TAG wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:26 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:49 am
Juzh wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:23 pm
Funny hearing about all those hamilton tracks when he's had the best car for the last 3 and half years.
His dominance in some tracks should analized taking into account that he has had the most dominant car in many years, I agree with this point, but Hungary is not the case. He has won here in 2007, 2009, 2012 and 2013. Its clear that Hamilton is pretty good here.
That clarity can be a little foggy to some because of the h8r goggles. And to think that Schumacher's pole record could be tied next race. :mrgreen:
Hahaha true, and Schumacher´s pole record will be gone soon too. Not excited as a huge MSC fan but I tend to consider his championships and victories more important. :mrgreen:

Moose
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Moose » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:46 pm

Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:29 pm
Hahaha true, and Schumacher´s pole record will be gone soon too. Not excited as a huge MSC fan but I tend to consider his championships and victories more important. :mrgreen:
Like Schumacher didn't have massive advantages to win his championships too.

1994 was very similar to 2007 - he won because the Williamses stole points off each other (or Died half way through the season :'( ), Hamilton was on the receiving end, rather than the giving end.
1995 was very similar to 2008 - won at the last second in a somewhat controversial way.
2000 was pretty competitive, but Schumacher had the benefit of a subservient team mate.
2001 was getting pretty dominant, again with a subservient team mate.
In 2002 the Ferrari was utterly dominant.
In 2003 Schumacher probably only won due to having a number 2 driver as a team mate.
In 2004 the Ferrari was utterly dominant.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to belittle Schumacher here. I'm just pointing out that all great F1 champions had some pretty massive advantages either in the form of their car, or the structure of their team.

That applies equally to Schumacher, Vettel and Hamilton.

godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by godlameroso » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:18 pm

No rain expected so far, at least not on Friday or Saturday.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Big Mangalhit » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:25 pm

ChrisDanger wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:05 pm
Moose wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:43 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:55 am
Pole:

1.Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Bottas
4. Verstappen
5. Bottas
6. Ricciardo
7. Sainz
8. Alson
9. Perez
10. Hulkenberg
But... where will quantum Bottas finish in the race?

Will Mercedes get two sets of points for him?
There's also the wildcard entry of Hungarian Tamás Alson, subbing for Wehrlein, who magically puts the Sauber in 8th.
Best prediction ever!!! :mrgreen: