2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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cooken wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:44 pm
Wow. .

I mean, honorable, but let's watch Ham lose the title now by 2 points.
Agree, honorable from his point of view, utterly stupid from the team and competition point of view.


The only reason Vettel won this race was team orders wich didn´t allow Kimi to attack. Mercedes should have done the same and let their #1 finish first. It´s true that Bottas is not as discarded for the WDC as is Kimi, but being realistic they should have provided TOs to let Lewis score as much points as possible


If he finally lose the title by 1-2 points it will be exclusively Mercedes responsibility as they didn´t maximize their chances

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:53 pm
If there is a hypocrite in here it is Ferrari! Raikkonen was much faster yet they risked everything for their boy Vettel!
Define everything.

In my book they´re fighting for the title, not for a single victory... They did what they´re supposed to do, fighting for the title maximizing all their chances. Letting Kimi fight Seb would have been utterly stupid


And yes, I think from Mercedes and Lewis point of view, returning position with Bottas was utterly stupid, they gifted 3 points advantage to Vettel/Ferrari. Serious racing teams don´t gift anything to their rivals.

Santozini
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:42 am

We saw in Russia and Austria, how two equally matched cars scrap for the win. There was never a point where it was guaranteed as to who would win. That is how it should be. We shouldn't be robbed off racing spectacle because of stupid layout of a circuit.
I disagree. We all knew VET could have had another 100 laps..still he wouldn't be able to pass BOT.. regarding those particular fights (VET vs BOT both in Russia and Austria) I see no difference when compared to yesterday...only the fact that the Merc guy won on those occasions, therefore it was "exiting"

All and all, in those 3 occasions stated, the car behind might have had a slight pace advantage but was unable to get close enough for an overtaking move

zac510
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Hungary does throw up some good chaotic races, but there's definitely something worse about the aerodynamics of this year's cars. To criticise the track is to shoot the messenger when the real culprit is the bad technical regulations. Even the best circuits on the calendar will have a bore-fest every now and again.
From the perspective of a whole season we need a diverse range of circuits with styles like Hungary and Monaco that allow chassis like RBR and McLaren to play to their strengths.

Treble
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Shakeman wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:40 am
I hope Liberty boot tracks like Hungary and Monaco, it's absurd that a driver in the lead can be so far off the pace of the following cars and no one can get by. Cars and tracks have to change to make this sport worth watching on a Sunday. I enjoy the off season tech of F1 but watching a procession on Sunday is utterly pointless, frankly I'd rather watch some of the live sim racing on Twitch than F1.
Hey man, Mercedes is dominating for years now, we saw for three years only Rosberg vs Hamilton races. And the problem now is Monaco or Hungary (where Ferrari won). I understand is beautiful to see Hamilton win but please.....

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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zac510 wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:12 am
Hungary does throw up some good chaotic races, but there's definitely something worse about the aerodynamics of this year's cars. To criticise the track is to shoot the messenger when the real culprit is the bad technical regulations. Even the best circuits on the calendar will have a bore-fest every now and again.
From the perspective of a whole season we need a diverse range of circuits with styles like Hungary and Monaco that allow chassis like RBR and McLaren to play to their strengths.
When you buy a new and a big car, you obviously broaden your parking slot at your home, which was designed for older, smaller car. How often the track layouts have been changed to aid better racing? If anything, in many circuits, they added chicanes and tight turns to slow down the cars. It's time, the tracks are revisited to see if they fit the current bill or not.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Santozini wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:11 am
only the fact that the Merc guy won on those occasions, therefore it was "exiting"
This what happens when you bury your head in such deep rooted fanboyism ---, that you can't see the point being made. It has nothing to do with who won or who lost. I could have also stated Spain a great case of good racing, if it was all about fanboyism. When two cars are closely matched and going lap after lap, it is enough if they can create anticipation; an overtake is not a high necessity. But when a highly faster car gets stuck behind a far more slower car, that is farce.

If you can't add something sensible, stay away.

zac510
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:23 am
When you buy a new and a big car, you obviously broaden your parking slot at your home, which was designed for older, smaller car. How often the track layouts have been changed to aid better racing? If anything, in many circuits, they added chicanes and tight turns to slow down the cars. It's time, the tracks are revisited to see if they fit the current bill or not.
Yeah and often those changes don't work either. Even circuits designed from a clean sheet to favour overtaking are really hit and miss. It's far from an exact, repeatable science. There are so many variables involved, year in year out.
In the same way fanboys have to accept that their team won't win perfectly all the time, F1 watchers need to respect that sometimes the track can not produce a perfectly exciting race every single time.

basti313
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Phil wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:55 am
@basti313

We are arguing different things. I never said that RAI would have certainly passed Vettel if he was given a go 1-lap longer. The only argument here is that:

1.) Ferrari could have kept Kimi out 1-lap longer without compromising the "team result"
2.) Kimi would have had a genuine shot if he had stayed out a lap longer
3.) Ferrari did not give Kimi that shot because it could have compromised Vettels result and perhaps made one of their cars more vulnerable vs. both Mercedes

Either Ferrari is intelligent here for playing the WDC game and thinking strategically or they lucked into keeping their WDC contender with the limping car staying ahead. It can't be both.

It's a no brainer if you ask me. I.....
These are all useless arguments. In F1 you pit when the similar on pace car behind pits. There is nothing to win when you don't. There is only much to loose when you either fail to pit in time or if you have a bad pitstop.

I really do not understand, why you think it is a good idea to compromise the gap to Bottas. If anything goes wrong during the stop, you need every second of a gap. And Ferrari had more than enough bad pitstops this year.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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zac510 wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:34 am
GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:23 am
When you buy a new and a big car, you obviously broaden your parking slot at your home, which was designed for older, smaller car. How often the track layouts have been changed to aid better racing? If anything, in many circuits, they added chicanes and tight turns to slow down the cars. It's time, the tracks are revisited to see if they fit the current bill or not.
Yeah and often those changes don't work either. Even circuits designed from a clean sheet to favour overtaking are really hit and miss. It's far from an exact, repeatable science. There are so many variables involved, year in year out.
In the same way fanboys have to accept that their team won't win perfectly all the time, F1 watchers need to respect that sometimes the track can not produce a perfectly exciting race every single time.
I pity those people who give up on trying to constantly enhance what should be a SHOW and accept the mediocrity of failures that occur in trying and give up.
Last edited by GPR-A duplicate2 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Santozini
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:26 am
If you can't add something sensible, stay away.
I don't think it's your call if I stay away or not
Santozini wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:11 am
All and all, in those 3 occasions stated, the car behind might have had a slight pace advantage but was unable to get close enough for an overtaking move
What's not sensible about this? Care to explain? Again, the car behind might have had a slight pace advantage, but we don't really know. VET had time in his pocket if needed, he was just doing the minimum and it actually payed out. Was he forced to up the pace to defend from a Merc, I'm sure he would. Remember his pace during the first few laps before start nursing the car?

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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Santozini wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:41 am
What's not sensible about this? Care to explain? Again, the car behind might have had a slight pace advantage, but we don't really know. VET had time in his pocket if needed, he was just doing the minimum and it actually payed out. Was he forced to up the pace to defend from a Merc, I'm sure he would. Remember his pace during the first few laps before start nursing the car?
What's wrong? The whole understanding of yours and reducing my point to one incident that happened in this race. Shows, you did not get the point that is being made about racing. Huh.

zac510
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:40 am
zac510 wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:34 am
Yeah and often those changes don't work either. Even circuits designed from a clean sheet to favour overtaking are really hit and miss. It's far from an exact, repeatable science. There are so many variables involved, year in year out.
In the same way fanboys have to accept that their team won't win perfectly all the time, F1 watchers need to respect that sometimes the track can not produce a perfectly exciting race every single time.
I pity those people who give up on trying to constantly enhance what should be a SHOW and accept the mediocrity of failures that occur in trying and give up.
I reject your pity :)

basti313
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:26 am
Santozini wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:11 am
only the fact that the Merc guy won on those occasions, therefore it was "exiting"
This what happens when you bury your head in such deep rooted fanboyism ---,
Poor argument.
GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:26 am
But when a highly faster car gets stuck behind a far more slower car, that is farce.
Which car was highly faster?
If I see it correctly, Vettel was dead slow in S2, but had normal pace in S1 and S3. Rai was on his tail at the DRS detection point, but was several car length behind on the straight using DRS, because no one can follow another car in turn 14. The Mercs had maybe a pace advantage of half a second over the full track with Vet having half a second in his pocket. Bot even failed to follow in the last stages.

We have seen a real pace difference of maybe half a second. And the question is, if this was the pace difference in the relevant sector 3. Same further down the grid....Hulk vs. Ocon. 0.7sec pace difference at max. This is not enough to overtake in most racing series on most tracks in the world.

Santozini
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:43 am
Santozini wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:41 am
What's not sensible about this? Care to explain? Again, the car behind might have had a slight pace advantage, but we don't really know. VET had time in his pocket if needed, he was just doing the minimum and it actually payed out. Was he forced to up the pace to defend from a Merc, I'm sure he would. Remember his pace during the first few laps before start nursing the car?
What's wrong? The whole understanding of yours and reducing my point to one incident that happened in this race. Shows, you did not get the point that is being made about racing. Huh.
I got your point, but you clearly didn't get mine.

I'll rephrase it: Russia, Austria and Hungary, there was no racing for 1st position (or 2nd even), no matter how you want to spin it, because in all 3 occasions, the car behind couldn't get close enough to properly attack.